Body Strength Question

[Mickguard]

I'm starting to plan the Strabocaster and I'm wondering about how much wood you can take away from the top of the guitar before you've weakened it too much (i.e., string tension from the neck).

I see some Strats have 'swimming pool' routes...and then there's that hole that goes all the way through the body for the bridge, not to mention the huge route on the underside for the trem springs...

With all that wood taken away, how is it possible the guitar doesn't just fold in two?

So I'm wondering how much wood you can take away? Which side is best to take the wood away from--top or bottom?

Also, how much strength would a cap add back in? --for example, I have some nice planks of 0.5-0.8 cm maple coming in, and I have a couple of planks of thin mahagony taken from an old headboard.

Can anyone point me to photos of radical body routes (chambers too)?

Thanks!

Edited February 15, 2005 by idch

[ToneMonkey]

So I'm wondering how much wood you can take away? Which side is best to take the wood away from--top or bottom?

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Well from a purely technical standpoint it would be best to take wood from the back so that the wood under the strings if left. This is because of simple leverage. For example the wood at the bottom might be twice as far from the tension line as the wood at the top. Therefore it would feel twice the force.

Of course in the real world you're going to have put big holes in the top for the pups (unless you go for back routed ones like mushy the shroom - look for the nebula thread in the progress section) so that kind of answers it.

Kaj

[Devon Headen]

Your question is impossible to answer. Both of the questions not answered depend entirely on the species of wood, your scale length, the individual piece of wood and numerous other factors.

[tirapop]

Yeah, with a swimming pool route and the trem route there's a lot of material missing... it's maybe 1/2" left at it's thinnest. But, not all the load is going in a straight line from the neck joint to the bridge. Part of the load is going around the holes, in the "wings". If you had a good transition from the neck joint to the sides, you could route a big hole where the pickups went, through the thickness of the guitar. You might've seen swapmeet electric guitars with necks bolted to toilet seats. Then there are those Alavarez guitars with the scoop... the ones where you see nothing but air and strings between the neck and the first pickup.

Caps add strength. String loads put the body in compression and bending. The most effective material is on the top and back... say, just like in an acoustic guitar.

[guitar_ed]

I wouldn't be too quick to remove very much wood from the body if you are using a tremelo. Because if you take off too much, the sustainer block will be poking out the back, and that would be a bad thing.

Other than that, the primary stress on a guitar is pretty much a straight line down the neck to the bridge. The sides or wings don't matter very much.

Guitar Ed

[Mickguard]

I wouldn't be too quick to remove very much wood from the body if you are using a tremelo.  Because if you take off too much, the sustainer block will be poking out the back, and that would be a bad thing.

Other than that, the primary stress on a guitar is pretty much a straight line down the neck to the bridge.  The sides or wings don't matter very much.

Guitar Ed

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Hi Ed...I'm not using that type of tremolo, instead I have one of these: "Old Style Tremelo"

For the bridge, I'll be modifying a hard tail bridge (basically, I'm going to shave off the back lip and fasten the saddles to the surface of the guitar (but they'll remain fully adjustable).

This will leave a lot more material left in the body. I'm still going to cap at least one surface of the guitar though...I have to choose between maple and mahogany.

To me, this 'sustainer block' thing just sounds like too much voodoo...I suppose I could always fit a chunk of steel below the bridge though --I was thinking of using a steel plate that runs from the neck pocket to the bridge...

[westhemann]

To me, this 'sustainer block' thing just sounds like too much voodoo...I suppose I could always fit a chunk of steel below the bridge though --I was thinking of using a steel plate that runs from the neck pocket to the bridge...

umm..a trem block (sustainer block) is only meant to attach the springs to.othing to do with "voodoo"

you don't have them on a non trem bridge

[LGM Guitars]

I think the Alvarez Dana is the perfect example of how little wood is really needed to be left in there for strength.

You have to remember, an acoustic has more tension than most electrics ever will, and when you really think about it, there is very little wood in a top or anywhere on an acoustic.

[Doc]

Going on the "chain is as strong as it's weakest link" idea you can look at the average neck and see that it doesn't take a lot of wood to hold up. The red devil pictured above shows however that the quality of the wood is really critical. There are things called stress cracks from drying and wind checking from the trees life that become really important as you remove wood. When you cut your blank take a piece from the top and bottom and tap them, hard. on the table saw and see if cracks open easily. This means that you do have to buy more wood than you absolutely have to have, but you have to buy more wood than you absolutely have to have. That or buy your blank from a reputable supplier who checks this for you.

Another funiture maker's trick is to slice the wood lengthwise into a couple of strips and reglue it. This will deaden the sound quality some but will give you a stronger board. Good glue joints are stronger than wood. Les Paul's are glued up from three pieces and seem to sound pretty good.