psw Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Hi...Theory a bunch of interlectual crap designed to inhibit the true players, or... This post drew out of something that came to me when looking at a chord on another thread: Your Favorite Chord Thread When I studied it again I realised/recalled that there was a lot more to it and that you could use it to structure ideas that go beyond traditional concepts yet still be really accessable to most guitarists as it uses at it's core the basic minor pentatonic scale that we all know and love. SO...I'll do it anyway...'cause I just like the sound of my own typing ...but, before I do i'd be interested to see what people think about theory and such and whether there's any interest in this kind of stuff. Here's the post from the other thread...check out some other posts there to get a hint of what I'm suggesting in term's of new theory. As far as I know, this has not been discussed elsewhere before and, although some of the concepts are knew, as far as I know, the theory is my own...and it can be a bit of practical fun (ie...you can actually put this to use) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I think I'll hit the forum with a new thread on this called The Secret Life of Pentatonics. Before I do, it would be interesting to know how much people know or want to know. Personally, I did a University Degree majoring in Music but it was a little different to a normal music degree. Too often, music theory is taught with a classical bent that leaves your typical guitar player saying...yeah, yeah...so what! I did a forum search on music theory and there is an anti-theory school out there. I don't blame people for feeling that way...so you can give a chord a name, big deal, we can both play it. Well, I don't play classical, jazz or whatever and it really has no use in what I wan't to do. And here's a fav...People who know theory can't play! Hmmmm....Well, perhaps theory isn't for everyone...and I'll admit that the practical application can seem limited. However, there is theory behind the tuning of the guitar, the spacing of the frets, the intonation....and there is theory going on when you select to play em pentatonic, blues scale or whatever over the Emin chord. You can ignore the interlectual part and just play by intuition...no problem...but you can't ignore that there is theory behind the way music works...or doesn't. The problem is that a lot of theory teaching suggests that traditional music theory is a set of rules...to be obeyed...or it's wrong! Traditional music theory goes back to the study of what Bach was doing in the 16th century and seems to be based on what we'd now call the european classical view of what's right and what's wrong. OK...fast forward to the twentieth Century...so along came forms such as jazz with blue notes (minor melodies over major progressions, etc) and the rules seem to be nonsense. "Simpler" forms such as Rock and Blues even more emphisis the seeming uselessness of the classical based theory approach...what is the point. So, a bunch of interlectuals study a whole bunch of this new stuff and come up with some new rules and you get people saying this is the right and wrong way to play it. Of course the theory came second...and the true improvisors came back with forms such as free jazz (where it seemed like anything goes and there's no right and wrong...but it's still jazz) and said, "cop that fellas!!!" And the rock guys just forged ahead and pretty much were ignored...perhaps because of the "screw you" anti-interlectual nature of the beast and that it was the music of the young so what would they know! So, I'll admit that I find some of this interlectual stuff fascinating, but...not all theory need be retrospective. That is that it need not derive from the study of the past and simply be a way to name chords or to set down rules of what's right and what's wrong based on that...and become stifeling and sometimes, anti-creative or intuitive. What I learn't was that you don't find everything in books, that not everything relates to what you may want to do now or where you might want to go from where you're at, and that, you can actually develop your own theoretical frameworks to move forward to different unexplored areas. A perfect example is someone like Allan Holdsworth who has a seriously advanced DIY theory behind what he's doing that, for the life of me...even though I've seen the video where he tries to explain it...I don't really get or can make use of...and I suspect that he's the only one who really get's it. But...even though his music may seem strange and chaotic...there is a wierd beauty and sense to what he does. Now we may not want to sound like Allan Holdsworth but it is an example of how theory can be used to give musical sense to stuff beyond the norm and open up new horizons and break down the stuff that says this is right, this is wrong! So Anyway...If people are interested in seeing an example of this that takes practical guitar based stuff and pushes what you probably already know (from playing, not theory)....somewhere else...then I'd be happy to oblige...I really do enjoy this stuff but it does take a bit of work to explain so I'd want to be sure that there really is an interest before I put in too much effort and I'm not just writing for myself here. It might also help if I can get an idea of people's familiarity with basic stuff (say how chords are constructed) before I start anything. I think I can explain things that might really expand your mind and your playing...or at least be fun. It will take some mind-bending and to throw out some of the old rules for a bit. So if you're up for a bit of brain-twisting...let me know! Know-it-all-not-pete aka psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 I'd be up to it. I'm learning the same stuff in music class this year and next, and hopefully with this it will help me understand theory; not only for school, but for my playing, and to help me understand better. I think it's awesome you wan't to do this, and im very up tot learning it. If all the players today knew about theory there would be a hell of a lot better musicians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 That's great...I'll do it anyway but it'll take a bit of getting together (I've already started ) What I'll be doing will be very different from what you'll be learning but it will help change the way you see it and you'll see that there's more options than what you'll be taught...and more practical uses to it. You might even enjoy it a lot more...think of it like a mystery logic puzzle...it really can be a lot of fun. That said...if there's sufficient interest in this new stuff I could do some things on more traditional theory to feed my ego at another time...this stuff is really quite a different way of looking at things...far more guitar oriented and practical...might really open some new horizon's for some... Any other taker's? love-to-see-my-name-on-the-board-pete/aka psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 I'm not sure how advanced you're talking, but I'm interested. I know quite a bit of theory, but it'll be interesting to see a new take on it all. I say if you feel up to it, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultura999 Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 im interested and i know little next to nothing theory. i cant even read music! hahaha you may just wanna do one thread then see how it goes, like how many hits it gets or something, then you'll have a better idea instead of everyone just replying. -Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Well...it might take a bit of work and ing. I wont be using any music notation...just A, B, C's and a bit of TAB so don't worry. But it's pretty easy to grasp. It's might be hard for some with too much theory and are a bit stuck...it takes a bit of an open mind. Basically...knowing the pentatonic scale and a little about chords is about all that is required. Anyway...already working away and it's coming along....I'll put a big chunk of it down so people can digest it and people can ask questions and stuff later. Half a theory is no good to anyone!!!! Trust me...it's not hard long-posts-a-specialty-pete / aka psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenderSurrender Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Open to everyone PSW? Id love to get involved... Doing music at A level next year and it would help muchly ~~ Slain Angel ~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Let 'er rip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Churchyard Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 I am a self-confessed music theory fan/freak... So thumbs up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 go for it! im gonna study music in uni next year well the end of this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtommyb Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Ok just to add to the thread what ive found out after years of playing and a love/hate relationship with theory. When i started playing guitar i hated theory i thought it was pointless and waste of my time when i could be rocking out. But as ive progressed and found that my playing would reach a certain stage and then peak out. I then went to theory and went so wat dont i know (finding i knew alot just not its actual name or expression). Even if this theory was just scales and arpeggios i could that and use these new scales and arpegs into my soloing or chord progressions. All i have to say about theory is... find the practical side of it... so many times have i heard (and thought myself) "ARGH!!!! this is a waste of time and im never gonna use it!!", then ended up using it somehow a week later. So im gonna say check out what psw is putting together (i know i will). And Learn the theory after youve learnt the practical side of it it will make a whole lot more sense. (Paul gilbert said something similar in a magazene). I will be looking out for this. BigT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 THANKS A LOT FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT That's great....it took a bit to get it together but you can now find it here: The Secret Life of Pentatonics It should be pretty accessable to most people...hopefully it will open a few doors to different ways of thinking! As far as I know it's my own work...I've never seen these relationships discussed before...there is probably even more depth to the concepts so feel free to add to the discussion that will follow the tutorial! and pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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