elynnia Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Hiya, I know I've mentioned this in another post, but I didn't seem to get any replies >_>... Can sanding an acoustic archtop to remove paint be done in the same manner as in Brian Calvert's tutorial on the site - or are any precautions needed in terms of binding around the edges and f-holes? Also, What is the best way to protect the fretboard while doing it? cheers, elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Hiya, I know I've mentioned this in another post, but I didn't seem to get any replies >_>... Can sanding an acoustic archtop to remove paint be done in the same manner as in Brian Calvert's tutorial on the site - or are any precautions needed in terms of binding around the edges and f-holes? Also, What is the best way to protect the fretboard while doing it? cheers, elynnia ← Stripping is stripping, but if you're talking celluloid binding, remember many strippers that'll attack your paint will positively destroy plastic binding. Sanding would be the way to go there, but as with any acoustic instrument, I'd be very, very, very careful; the carve and thickness on the top in particular are done that way for a reason, so you don't want to go re-shaping the top. This is particularly true for flattops, since the wood's alreay very thin, and spruce, well, sands away easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 also keep in mind that most sound hole rosettes, whether wood or plastic, are very thin also and could be sanded through very easily. are you going back with a clear coat or are you going to color it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 The guitar's an archtop, so there are only f-holes, and no soundhole rosettes, so that should be fine. I'm planning to sand down the whole instrument, because at the moment it's a terribly ugly shade of 'yellow-burst', and then possibly coat it with violin laqcuer. Also, unclej, if you could explain more about how to cover the pickup holes without taking the top off, that'd be great (I changed my mind and got it, currently playing with holes in the front). elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 The guitar's an archtop, so there are only f-holes, and no soundhole rosettes, so that should be fine. I'm planning to sand down the whole instrument, because at the moment it's a terribly ugly shade of 'yellow-burst', and then possibly coat it with violin laqcuer. Also, unclej, if you could explain more about how to cover the pickup holes without taking the top off, that'd be great (I changed my mind and got it, currently playing with holes in the front). elynnia ← To mask any f-holes (or any hole that peers inside the cavity) stuff clean lint-free rags in the cavities so that they protect the innards from overspray. Make sure there is enough rag in there that it dosen't move around while you're spraying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 To mask any f-holes (or any hole that peers inside the cavity) stuff clean lint-free rags in the cavities so that they protect the innards from overspray. Make sure there is enough rag in there that it dosen't move around while you're spraying. ← Oh, in that post I was asking about fixing up the top of the guitar - it's an archtop which has whole where humbuckers used to be mounted - any ideas on how to fill the holes over so that when I refinish it it looks 'right' would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 lol oh sorry, i misunderstood. Dont have much for you there. Best way, retop the thing. Alternate would be a dutchman. Make a bigger plug (any shape bigger than the hole that wedges in. So that its proud on both sides of the top. Then carve flush and sand etc etc. I'll add, this is a bad way to do it. A retop is your best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 mmhmm - since I'm no expert on messing with guitars, I think the 'dutchman' is what I'll do. Should I trace the holes left and then cut out pieces of wood to fit it and glue that in, or is there a better way? Also, what could I use to fill screw-holes and gaps in the wood before I paint it? elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 The info you're looking for can be found Here (just scoll down to general repairs) Keep in mind using a patch like a dutchman is not unlike inlay. So if you dont have experience with inlay. I'd suggest LOTS of practice first. Regardless It is going to be really hard to do without removing the top of the guitar. Edit: What's wrong with f-holes anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 thanks, The problem's not the f-holes...it's the ugly holes where there once used to be pickups and knobs. I know that the logical thing is to fit the electronics, but I really like a 'clean' top, so yeh. on another topic relating to this unclej said he knows a method...wonder what his is. the guitar: thanks, elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 With that picture I realize I haven't been listening enough to what you are saying, im sorry. The round holes are easy, drill them out a little larger and plug them with a dowel. Just insert the dowel far enough so that it reaches the thickness of the top and then cut flush. The pickup routes are a different story. Is it solid underneath them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 ok, here goes..keep in mind that your patch is going to show if you're using a clear coat but what i was talking about is making a backing to glue on the inside of the guitar so that there's something to glue the patch onto. cut a thin piece of wood about 3/8's to 1/2" larger than the holes where the pickups were. ideally you'd like to have about a 1/4" gluing surface on both sides and both ends. 1/4" ply or something about that thickness will do fine. find yourself a small nail with a head on it..a paneling nail or something similar. drill a hole in the middle of the piece to be glued slightly larger than the nail shaft but not as large as the nail head. you want the nail to drop into the guitar later. grasp the nail shaft, pointy end pointing at you and see if you can slip it into the hole at an angle. the idea is to get the patch into the hole and pull it up flush with the inside of the guitar top. if you can get it in and out easily then take it out and put a bead of glue around the upper edge of the patch, slip it back into the guitar and clamp a set of vice grips onto the nail. pull the patch up, hold it steady, turn the guitar over so that the top of the guitar is facing the floor and suspend the guitar between the two chairs that you have standing by for just this purpose. the weight of the vice grips will hold the patch in place until the glue is dry. turn the guitar over, release the vice grips and the nail should fall into the hole and you can use that little rascal on the next patch. after you've got both patches in place you can fill the cavity with bondo or make a top patch to be sanded down smooth with the surface of the guitar. while i was typing this i was thinking what i would probably do in your case is to get a nice piece of contrasting veneer large enough to cover both holes, cut it into a nice design of some sort and glue it over the holes and finish however i wanted...but that's just a thought. if any or all of this made no sense at all let me know and i'll try to clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted September 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 Hiya - thanks for the comments and sorry for the late reply. I've become really busy lately - the guitar's gonna be on hold for another 2 or 3 weeks at least. Will post progress later, thanks. elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltonL Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Just a quick comment and some questions. Archtops with pickups typically have thicker tops than acoustic archtops. This is to minimize feedback. You may not be very happy with the sound of the guitar once you have filled the holes. Have you played the guitar in its present state? How does it sound? Most important, how is the volume and balance between bass and trebble? My guess would be that filling the pickup holes will improve the volume a little but you may loose some of the balance and end up with something you will not enjoy playing. A new top would be my suggestion if you are not very happy with the sound of the guitar in its present state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted September 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Hiya, I got a palm sander, various grades of sandpaper and dowels today, so it should get started anytime soon. I've decided to dowel the round holes and fill the bridge pickup hole like unclej said - hope it works well. I'll try and post photos as it goes, but just to make sure - it's fine to do just as this tutorial: http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/sand.htm says on this archtop, eh? Also, I got a brown wood stain to colour it after it's done, hopefully should turn out well... elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted October 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Hiya. Although I'd expected it to work smoothly, the finish on this guitar seems to be particularly strong and it looks like this: after 2 and a half sheets of sandpaper and quite some time, even with a palm sander. I was wondering - would a chemical paint stripper work on this finish be more efficient? I've read that stripper is bad for the bindings - should I cover the binding with masking tape or duct tape, or keep the stripper away from the binding altogether? Also, just wondering, what exactly happens when stripper gets left on binding? (I'm trying to think of a way to remove that f-hole binding...) thanks, elynnia Edited October 3, 2005 by elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Stripper melts binding. Your binding will turn to plastic goop, so to speak. In my experience, chemical strippers melt plastic enough so it's worthless, but not so much that it's easy to get the plastic off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted October 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Stripper melts binding. ← So - if I'm using chemical stripper on this guitar, how should I cover the bindings? Would masking tape or duct tape also turn into goop? Sorry - first refinishing project, elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespresence Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) Even if you mask the bindings the cehmical is going to leach under there and destroy the binding. If you want to save the binding I would suggest sanding only. If you want to remove the "f" hole binding (I don't know why you want to do that) use heat. I use a clothes iron with a damp rag. Lay the rag on the binding, apply the heat from the iron, let it sit for about 20-30 seconds and remove. You'll have to do that a few times until the binding adhesive loosens up and you can tug the binding free. Be careful with the heat so you don't burn the top or yourself. BTW...what brand if guitar is that? Edited October 4, 2005 by bluespresence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted October 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 (edited) If you want to save the binding I would suggest sanding only.← So - just to make sure - I'm using 60 grit 'garnet paper' on an palm 'orbital' sander to sand through all of the paint to get to bare wood - is it normal to talk this much time? Should I use wet/dry paper instead, like someone once said? BTW...what brand if guitar is that? ← It's a Fullerton. Which, incidentally, is one of the many names these cheap import guitars get... elynnia Edited October 5, 2005 by elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youthmindave Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 So, I'm curious. How's the project coming along? I had bought that same guitar once, and wasn't too happy with it, so I sent it back. It would make a beautiful acoustic though. -dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hiya, Sorry I wasn't around much - the guitar's in a basically playable and mostly finished state - has been since last December, but I was lazy. Also, I was also too lazt to photograph the work in progress, so here it goes. ^.^ A local car smash repair shop was kind enough to let me use their industrial sander (which they use on car bodies) to strip the paint, which worked quite a bit better than my cheap electric sander. Nevertheless, the finish on that guitar was impossibly hard and thick - one of the people at the smash repair said it was the hardest/thickest coat of paint they'd ever seen. Being a plywood instrument, I also sanded the top layer of the ply off the sides: the intention is to make this a viable acoustic guitar. Removing the f-hole binding turned out to be harder than expected; this is one of the incomplete aspects o the guitar. After the sanding, the bridge pickup hole was covered using the method explained above by unclej. For the top panel, I happened to come across a piece of plywood approximately the same colour and thickness as the original top, which also had been naturally warped to almost completely match the guitar's arched top. Dowels were glued in to fill the holes where the 3-way pickup selector and two of the volume/tone knobs were. After this, the top was sanded again. As I could not find anywhere in Sydney with good guitar painting supplies (and for the final time, do -not- point me to reranch.com!), I used a set of furniture paint supplies by Wattyl: the body was stained using Honey Oak "wood gel", and a stripe was drawn down the middle with Walnut Brown wood stain - partly in homeage to Les Paul's Log, but mostly to draw attention away from the joins where the bridge pickup had been filled. The front of the headstock was painted a flat black, and the back of the neck was sanded down to a natural finish, as done in classical string instruments. One coat of Estapol satin finish was used to cover the whole instrument. The tuners, bridge, tailpiece and knobs were replaced, and the wiring was redone using a liberal amount of shielded wire. The pots and pickup are original - they weren't too bad, and was enough for an instrument that would be usually palyed acoustically (although a closed pickup cover was fitted). Medium-light flatwound strings are fitted right now, and seem to be a good balance between tone and volume - the plywood finish makes this guitar slightly quieter than most acoustics. After this restoration, the guitar was taken to Byron Bay for a week for schoolies, where we had a great time sitting - or standing - around and singing Oasis and Green Day classics (we -are- a bunch of high-school graduates class of '06), and I got it signed by - well - anyone who wanted to sign it. As a guitar, it plays better than in its original state, probably because of the removal of the hard/thick original finish and the sanding off of the top layer of the side plywood. Overall, I'm quite happy on how it turned out - after I get it signed by a few more schoolmates, it'll get another coat (or two) of satin finish. Photos are on the way... elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynnia Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) Here are the photos - these were taken on the bad camera with low resolution, more pics when completely done! The front: The back: Close-up of the covered pickup hole: I think it was a not-too-bad first finishing project (saturating a Strat copy with blue aerosol spray probably doesn't count), and unexpectedly the guitar looks like it has a slightly reliced look. After I get it signed some more, it'll get some screw holes filled, more coats of clear finish, and hopefully a name in the headstock... ...elynnia Edited January 5, 2006 by elynnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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