Guitarfrenzy Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 The first time I painted a guitar with acrylic lacquer it did decent had some hints of orange peel.. although it sanded out nicely. But I started painting a bass guitar for a friend and am not please with the results.. basically the colors look streaky no matter which way I paint.. and I noticed it on the first guitar but this one is even worse because it's not mine and I want to do a very good job on this one... So I'm basically now discouraged with aerosol cans which I knew wasn't really the way to go in the first place. Tell me if I'm missing something here.. I just can't get the finish I'm looking for using aerosol cans. The things I see as a disadvantage are as follows: the painting fan(width of coverage) isn't very big thus you end up making more swipes at it and an HVLP paint rig will cover around 6" fan area.. so you have less streaks, unregulated paint volume(not a steady spray), and cost more... What do you think I should start using since I have access to a CapSpray 8100 paint rig that's real good.. Look.. I'm ready to ditch this aerosol cans.. and quick... Nitrocell? is that what everyone uses to get a great finish... help me out on how you mix this stuff... I'm looking at the StewMac book right now.. and wondering exactly what I need to order.. If anyone can tell me what to buy and how much I would appreciate it a bunch.. I will be staining and regular color finishing... and on Ash wood... Thanks Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 You don't have to use Nitro if you don't really want to, There's other alternatives out there. Without re-starting an ugly topic you can use component clears such as Urethane or Polyester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Hehehe, I won't get into that debate again Anyway, just look at the pinned topics in this forum, probably most of what you want to know are answered in these posts.... http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...=ST&f=10&t=1892 http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...=ST&f=10&t=1674 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted July 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Thanks for the links LGM... they helped out alot.. but from what I gather.. I should be using Component Poly Urethane for a great looking finish.. which I had no idea you could even use Poly Urethane type paints on a guitar... I thought you only had 2 choices for a good finish.. nitrocellulose lacquer and waterborne lacquer... since that's all they sell at Stew-Mac... So basically, If I'm understanding you right.. I can go to the local automotive store that mixes paint.. and get a Dupont Poly paint mixture that will cost me quite a bit of money.. but will give me a great finish... Wow... the only thing I think I like about the Stew-Mac stuff is that you get to mix it together with colors to make the clear lacquer a color of your own choice.. can you do the same for the Poly Urethane or can you not buy the clear and use the same kinda colors that Stew-Mac sells... just wondering.... I'm gonna go by my local automotive place that mixes paint.. luckily I've been buying so much stuff I get a discount now.. lol... and see if they sell that type of paint so I can actually get a good finish... also is it true that Poly Urethane will cure quicker?... anyway... thanks for the tips... Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Thats the trouble with Stew Mac, they lead you to believe that Nitro is the only way to go when finishing a guitar. It is IMO the best for acoustic guitars but for electric guitars durability is more of an issue than resonant qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfixer Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Not to menyion there prices are rediculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Hi jeremy ,just a few more question for ya if you dont mind, Im still a little confused about the different types of lacquer, i use either u-pol system-20 MS super clear lacquer or Lechler Acrifan Ms Acryllic lacquer. so are these polyurethane or acrylllic or both? they are 2 part (2:1 paint/hardner) and we use them for painting cars. When we do a car it hardens up very nicely, but when i paint a guitar in the stuff it does`nt seem to ever go fully hard, whats going on? i recently finished my 2nd guitar and brought it to my friends band practice for him to use. After 3 hours of use the back of it is heavily marked from his belt buckle(which was not in direct contact with the lacquer) i am not using any sanding sealer or grain filler, i am using lacquer to seal and fill the grain, is this the problem? Thanks in advance, john. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 John, I really can't tell you, first of all, I don't know of a component laquer, laquer is typically a single part solvent based paint. I would assume if you are spraying cars you are spraying a poly urethane. When you spray a car, do you heat cure it? Poly gets good and hard enough for polishing overnight, but it takes a couple weeks to reach the rock solid cure without force curing. When I spray a guitar they get to dust free in the booth, and then heat cured at 95degrees. I was curious as to just how hard the paint was, so I took one of the false necks I use to spray bodies with and hit it with the side of a wrench REALLY hard, it didn't even dent it. Poly Urethane is wonderful in that it retains a certain rubbery quality that allows it to be very chip resistant and still move with the wood. The movement in wood and shrinking of paint is what makes laquers crack eventually. I sprayed Nitro based laquer for a quite a while and I hate it, even many acoustic manufacturers are spraying Poly Urethanes now because it moves almost as well as Laquer, it doesn't deaden the sound, it is more durable, and it won't crack or yellow over time. You can mix base coat color paint into Poly Clear, it works sooooooooo sweet doing that. It flows out evenly, doesn't look streaky, it's just a great finish. I just don't like laquer, from a refinishers business stand point, it's not worth using because although the initial material cost is less, you use 2.5x the amount of coats with laquer as you do with poly's for the same finish, you have to wait a MINIMUM of 2 weeks before you can polish it, and it will continually shrink for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted July 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 ok.. so let me get this straight.. I can mix my own colors with component Polyurethane? Or do you have special mixing devices and colors that are out of reach of the part time guitar builder... I guess what I'm saying is, since you've really got me wanting to get into using component Polyurethane, I was just wondering about the details on where i should buy it.. how I can mix my own colors(if possible) and the proper procedure to getting a great finish with it.. I hope this isn't too many questions... but I'm ready to buy whatever I need and learn whatever I need to learn in order to get the kind of finishes that your getting... Also what's the cure time without uv or heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 you can mix colors with poly base coat easy. Base coat is a single part color that dries matte finish, it must be cleared, but you can mix colors together, or at your automotive paint shop you can get paints matched to a chip you bring in or pick from their chips. The cure time without force drying is about 3 hours to the touch, 24 hours to polishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted July 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Ok .. say that I pick out a color I like and get them to mix it for me.. I just paint it with that.. and no need for a clear coat.. or am I missing some steps.. I know how the painting method of lacquer is.. just don't know anything about this type of paint... also do you polish just the same as you would the lacquer finish.. or is that different.. Thanks Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 no no, they mix your color in base. You spray the base, it will dry with a matte finish, then you HAVE to clear coat it. When I talk about spraying poly Urethane, I am referring to primarily the clear coat. You can still use acrylics and other types of paint for your actual clear. However, if you WANT, you can mix poly base into the clear for transparents, or even solids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 woa , am i mixing up the terms lacquer and clear ? because nowhere on my paint does it say lacquer( i imagined that word into existence i think!) just ms clear, so its not lacquer im using? sorry so many questions , just trying to get a factory finish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 by the way , the clear i use smells really sweet if that means anything, more of a sugary smell than any other paints. john. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted July 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Ok.. so I get the base paint mixed to my liking.. I spray how many coats? two or three? Do I sand between coats or only if i get runs and dust? Then I can spray regular lacquer over it? or polyurethane clear? If I use polyurethane clear then how many coats is recommended.. or am I still missing the boat?.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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