mailman Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 what are the tonal differences between thick tops and veneer tops? i know ive read some peoeple say there isnt an audible difference, and others say yes and i seem to find a lot have a certain distaste for veneered so whats the deal between the two and what is more favorable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSo_Spencer Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Yeah......i have a veneer top les paul which has like pieces to support the venners shape and it sounds pretty good, i am about to remove the veneer - dunno how maybe steam, and going to put a solid top on it, so when i am done i may be able to campare..... although i have played a few good quality les pauls and then mine (greco 1970's les paul bolt on) and they sound very similar..... i dont really think it would matter.................if you had a solid or venner they would most likely sound the same or the difference would be soooo minute..... (my own opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailman Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 alright its just that i read people on forums say things like "wow, what a nice top....but its probably a veneer...yeck" and so on so i just wanted to know whats so ba about it i have a guitar with a cap and another with a veneer, i cant compare though cuz the one with the veneer is strat like with a floyd, and the capped maple one is more les-paul like (its a dean cadillac....and its broken ATM too, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSo_Spencer Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 anyone who says yuck about veneers is most likely saying yuck about the fact that there is about 5 or six other pieces under the veneer to support its shape...... im pretty sure thats how it is well atleast on my guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 If you want to solid-top your veneered guitar, you'll want to simply route/cut off a hefty chunk, not just steam the veneer off. Unless you actually want it thicker than it was to start with. The thing people don't like about veneer, I think, is that it's got a rep for being 'cheap'. It's so thin that the glue pretty much has as much tonal effect as the veneer itself (ie, none). It also 'hides' what's underneath. I'm not a big fan, personally. A 1/8" top or back, sure, I'll do that, but generally I aim for at least 1/4", but more often than not I just like letting the natural wood show through. If it's ash, alder, mahogany, I want to see it, not cover it with a veneer. Soon as it hits drop top category, that's fine for me. Personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSo_Spencer Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 what i meant by steaming it off was i would steam the veneer itself off then the underlying pieces would be routed off till i get to the mahogany and then the veneer top would be used as a test for stains and stuff i think it is pine that is underneath it anyways - maybe ill just get some chisels or a plane < - should tear the pine up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 anyone who says yuck about veneers is most likely saying yuck about the fact that there is about 5 or six other pieces under the veneer to support its shape...... im pretty sure thats how it is well atleast on my guitar ← OK, the veneer thing won't give you any tonal caracteristics(sp) since the volume is not enough to make an impact on the guitars vibration (resonance). The pieces you are talking about is usualy what the guitar body is composed off. Don't be surprise that once you start routing them off, you will come to find that what you though was mahogany is actualy a venner around and in the back of the guitar like the Epiphones are, and those "pieces" are going all the way thru the body! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSo_Spencer Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 hmmmm...... i never thought about that but, ive taken my neck of my guitar and i can see some of the pieces under the veneer top - well i can see the piece in between both of the cavities and it is just glued to the mahogany... but the ones at the tailpiece.....and the ones around the side i dont know about but if these pieces went into the mahogany and thru the body wouldnt you be able to see the grain differences and wouldnt it add more steps into making the guitar therefore why would a company bother to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 anyone who says yuck about veneers is most likely saying yuck about the fact that there is about 5 or six other pieces under the veneer to support its shape...... im pretty sure thats how it is well atleast on my guitar ← OK, the veneer thing won't give you any tonal caracteristics(sp) since the volume is not enough to make an impact on the guitars vibration (resonance). And I'm going to take that one step further. Mind you, I don't have any scientific information here to back me up. I would think that a veneer would do no more for tone than a thick coat of paint. Veneer is extreemely thin and, as Maiden said, you have just as much glue under that For a drop top, there is much more material to contribute to the guitar body. I would expect the tonal difference to be in between the two different woods used for the body. For instance, a Mahogany guitar with a Maple cap is going to sound somewhere in between the two. It'll have the mellowness of Mahogany with a little brightness from the Maple. I would even think that the thickness of the bottom and top could be used to fine tune the characteristics of what each tone wood offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I think veneer has its place. If the top is thick enough it will play a bigger role in the tone of the body. Woods like Quilted Maple may not be a good choice tonally but that may be the look you want. In that case veneer is a good fit. Quilted Maple veneer will not look as deep as a 1/4" piece, but its all about trade offs to best achive your overall design goal. Veneer is cheaper and you can get very nice looking materail which is a plus. Veneer is more difficult to finish and may not look as good as thicker material, and I don't believe it is as durable (I would never veneer the sides of a guitar). As for a general hatred of veneer. I don't think I hate it, although I prefer not to use it if I can avoid it. When I look at a guitar that has been made to look like it is made of materials it has not been (thats lame). A deep carved top guitar that has been obviously been veneered with Fiddleback Maple, has been inlayed and bound in paperthin laminated shell, fingerboard has been dyed black to appear to be jet black Ebony, and on and on. Thats just LIPSTICK ON A PIG and nothing I would want to own. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 When I look at a guitar that has been made to look like it is made of materials it has not been (thats lame). A deep carved top guitar that has been obviously been veneered with Fiddleback Maple, has been inlayed and bound in paperthin laminated shell, fingerboard has been dyed black to appear to be jet black Ebony, and on and on. Thats just LIPSTICK ON A PIG lol.gif and nothing I would want to own. No kidding! I don't have any personal knowledge to add, but I remember just reading one of Draks post where he had the problem of not getting the depth in the figure of his veneer and was basically unhappy with it, just as Fryovanni just mentioned about the difference in look of figure. Also as stated people seem to have issues with the thickness because if you have to sand back too many times you can sand right throught the veneer itself, also certain shapes would be difficult to add veneer because of the carve, where as a thick top could just be carved to desired shape. Again nothing of personal experience just things I've seen and read, I am currently adding a top and back to my chambered guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 When I look at a guitar that has been made to look like it is made of materials it has not been (thats lame). A deep carved top guitar that has been obviously been veneered with Fiddleback Maple, has been inlayed and bound in paperthin laminated shell, fingerboard has been dyed black to appear to be jet black Ebony, and on and on. Thats just LIPSTICK ON A PIG lol.gif and nothing I would want to own. No kidding! I don't have any personal knowledge to add, but I remember just reading one of Draks post where he had the problem of not getting the depth in the figure of his veneer and was basically unhappy with it, just as Fryovanni just mentioned about the difference in look of figure. Also as stated people seem to have issues with the thickness because if you have to sand back too many times you can sand right throught the veneer itself, also certain shapes would be difficult to add veneer because of the carve, where as a thick top could just be carved to desired shape. Again nothing of personal experience just things I've seen and read, I am currently adding a top and back to my chambered guitar. ← Don't get me wrong. Like I said veneer can be a nice fit for a guitar, and there is a lot of great looking veneer. It is a great way to get the most out of a valuable resource, and applying & finishing it well requires a good deal of skill. A well built guitar made with quality materials will stand the test of time. A poorly built guitar made of low quality material will be looking pretty sad in about 5-10 years (depending on how much use it gets). Peace, Rich P.S. Jason- I am off to go see if you have any new pics posted. Can't wait to see how it is looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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