balooka Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Hi I was on Alembics site once again and I really can't seem to grasp how they do the back of the headstock. I mean the outer most veneer that seems to run 'into' the neck. I'd get it if the headstock was angled upwards... which it isnt Can someone please explain this to me?? THIS is what I mean (posted the link cause i dont want to hijack their pics) TIA jP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I'd say they layed down 4-5 layers of different veneer, then made sure they 'carved' at an angle, (direction-wise, towards the tip of the headstock . If that makes sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 There's a volute, they stop the veneer on the edge of it. The veneer isn't just laid on flat, it's bent upwards when it gets to the volute. Nothing you couldn't do w/ very thin veneer or steemed thicker wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 +1 Looking pretty darn gorgoeus with that tripple dark striped neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balooka Posted October 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 yeah looks awesome. I couldnt tell how they do it, there are hardly any pics from the side. That 'bending veneer' came to mind, but I kinda figured it would be pretty hard to pull it off. I'm gonna try it with some scrap just to see how hard it really is. Thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 It's not hard at all(that is, depending on the thickness). Although, you may need to moisten it or even hit it with some steem to give it the flexibility it needs to not crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balooka Posted October 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 hmm i think i missed something there (again).. Did you mean to say that the veneer is the volute? And *not* veneer over a volute? If so, you could cut the 'volute' rounding on the laminated veneer before glueing it on? jP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I don't think there is a volute - or if there is, it's a very narrow one which extend halfway towards the first fret. What I think they've done is 'backstrapped' the headstock. Register on the MIMF and search the library for 'Howard Klepper backstrapping'. You find a good explaination of the process,with a couple of examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Probably they rough-cut the volute first, then glue on the laminates, then carve/shape the volute. You'll need a clamping caul with a shape that follows the volute in order to get nice sharp lines...don't want any glue gaps or open joints in that puppy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balooka Posted October 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 awesome setch! thanks alot! So basically it's 'just' putting some laminated veneer on the back of the headstock and a part of neck. So when you carve the neck to headstock transition it would appear 'all by itself). Carving a volute would leave more of the laminates and the effect would increase....... right? Man I wish I paid more attention in Englishclass! Again, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Basically, yes. It's tricky, because you need to bend the veneers, either with a bending iron, or my clamping them *very* tight with a specially constructed caul. Any gaps or unevenness will look very nasty - don't ask me how I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Basically, yes. It's tricky, because you need to bend the veneers, either with a bending iron, or my clamping them *very* tight with a specially constructed caul. Any gaps or unevenness will look very nasty - don't ask me how I know... ← Keep in mind I haven't done this yet (and I won't do proper backstrapping for a while, if ever, because I likes my volutes), but the way I figure it, if you're doing multiple layers, use nice, thin veneer. Take it down thin enough, and steaming should let you bend it to shape. Having trouble making a tightly fitting caul? Use friendly plastic. Assuming I don't destroy the next neck I do, I'll be veneering the back of my next headstock, and taking pics of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mailloux Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Setch and Erikbojerik have got it right.There's definitely a volute there, if you look at the picture there's a difference in clarity through the lacquer where the volute is. It does look like it's very small though. I've been contemplating doing this on my next bass and what i'd personally do is to glue the veneer layers when the neck is still square. Shape first the back of the headstock and the volute area (at this stage it's only a cylindrical/mountainous thing (scuze my lack of clarity )) glue the veneer on it then after all is nice, dry and peachy cut-out your neck and shape it. Setch, maybe i'm a moron but I really can't find any links to that backstrapping thing on mimf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balooka Posted October 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Phil You have to register on mimf first, go the the forum and at the bottom of all topics there's a ibrary button... on that page scroll down to the searchfield and do a search for 'Howard Klepper backstrapping'... like seth said. The first link you get is awesome! hth jP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Phil - I'm 100% certain there is no volute. The difference in clarity and reflection is casued by lighting and the differing colours on the veneers, and the fact that the neck shaft is finished in satin, and the head in gloss. The nut is visible over the side of the neck, and is nearly an inch in front of the end of the veneers, which would place a volute on the shaft of the neck, very nearly at the first fret. Look around the other pics on the site and you'll see more examples of thesame thing, which are clearly not volutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Phil - I'm 100% certain there is no volute. The difference in clarity and reflection is casued by lighting and the differing colours on the veneers, and the fact that the neck shaft is finished in satin, and the head in gloss. The nut is visible over the side of the neck, and is nearly an inch in front of the end of the veneers, which would place a volute on the shaft of the neck, very nearly at the first fret. Look around the other pics on the site and you'll see more examples of thesame thing, which are clearly not volutes. ← +1 That's a classic non-voluted backstrapped headstock look there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Having trouble making a tightly fitting caul? Use friendly plastic. ← Except that I would still back it up with something firm. Anything flexible enough to bend at the headstock angle wouldn't be flat & firm enough by itself to squeeze out the glue from those joints IMO. I'd still prefer a caul shaped to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) Having trouble making a tightly fitting caul? Use friendly plastic. ← Except that I would still back it up with something firm. Anything flexible enough to bend at the headstock angle wouldn't be flat & firm enough by itself to squeeze out the glue from those joints IMO. I'd still prefer a caul shaped to fit. ← Well, yeah. You want something to hold the things in shape well, not force them into place. Bend them first, but also have a firm-fitting caul to get everything to fit. Example: make a wooden caul that's close, but not perfect, and put an in-between caul made of friendly plastic in there, if you don't trust the FP to do the job on its own. Personally, I think Friendly Plastic would make a perfectly acceptable clamping caul, assuming a fairly tight-fitting set of laminates. Friendly plastic doesn't 'bend' to shape; you warm it up (hot water), mold it to the shape you want it, let it set, and voila, stiff caul. It's not about forcing the FP into a curve or anything. Personally, I'm thinking FP+go-bars, rather than akward cam or other clamps. Edited October 7, 2005 by mattia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mailloux Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Phil - I'm 100% certain there is no volute. The difference in clarity and reflection is casued by lighting and the differing colours on the veneers, and the fact that the neck shaft is finished in satin, and the head in gloss. The nut is visible over the side of the neck, and is nearly an inch in front of the end of the veneers, which would place a volute on the shaft of the neck, very nearly at the first fret. Look around the other pics on the site and you'll see more examples of thesame thing, which are clearly not volutes. ← Yep, you're totally right, I had a look at the site. I would still glue this like I explained earlier though with the neck still in block form and I'd use small cork lined bits of wood at the neck/headstock transition as clamps. The headstock/neck transition does look like it has a much smoother transition than a normal 13% headstock. It looks like it flows into the neck to ease the veneering/clamping instead of having an abrupt 167% angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balooka Posted October 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 thanks for the info everyone, One more thing, do you bend the veneer with the grain or across is? I've made some 1.8 mm veneer (router worked like a charm) for the front of the headstock, and i have some strips left over. The grain is running over the length of the strips, so a bend would be across it, but I don't *think* that will work ok, or will it? I did some testing to get it to 1 mm and that worked great too... TIA jP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Bending across the grain will be harder, but that's what produces the strongest headstock, and is the way alembic will have done it. You'll have to use heat and moisture to soften the wood before clamping it into the curve, that's what makes this so tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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