thegarehanman Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Here's what Jeremy sent me in a PM: If you are just doing guitars, something like I built for a booth is fine, I'm moving my shop to the west coast and will be doing cars and such as well so I'm putting in a full size booth, but here's what I did for my guitar booth. First, it's a 10' x 12' booth 8' ceiling. It is all 2x4 construction with 4 light fixtures (4 tube 48" flourescent fixtures) on each 12 foot wall. They are mounted outside the booth with a sealed Lexan cover. Everything in the booth must be sealed, no switches, nothing like that. Then, for exhaust, I used a Furnace motor and fan. It is isolated in that the motor of course is outside of the ducting and the fan is belt drive with sealed bearings. In front of the fan (between the fan and booth) there are 2 furnace filters, these plug up fast, but at only $2 for a pack of 3 I change them regularly. Then after the fan I have 2 more filters just in case though they rarely fill up. Then it is ducted to outside. All of the walls of the booth and ceiling are sheeted with 18 gauge galvanized steel. I use furnace filters on the front wall to let air into the booth. As for my fresh air system, I use a survivair respirator and turbine compressor. Make sure to buy a compressor specifically for fresh air, do NOT use a standard compressor. The compressor mounts outside the booth and my air lines run through the wall into the booth (everything is sealed) The booth cost me about $2500 and the fresh air system with hood was $1700 (canadian prices, you can probably do the fresh air system for $1400 US) I have seen a company called Hobby air that does a fresh air system with mask for around $500 I think, they are on ebay, but I don't know anything about them and haven't been able to find much out about them except that they don't have a long life. If you're only going to use it maybe a couple hours a week it would likely be fine, I spray probably about 25 to 30 hours in a week so I wanted to buy the best I could get. Also, these paints are absorbing as well, you need to wear a full paint suit (thankfully they're cheap) as the paint is harmful through skin absorption as well as respiratory, eyes are particularly bad if you don't use a full face mask. Here are a couple pics of my booth from the website. http://www.lgmguitars.com/about/shop_tour.html http://www.lgmguitars.com/about/shop_tour.html http://www.lgmguitars.com/about/shop_tour.html I wish it was still that clean LOL, that was from when I very first put that shop up. For comparrison purposes, the new booth I'm putting up, the most cost effective way I can go, is costing me $45,000. It is 14 x 24 x 9, so really, just a little more than double the size I have now, but a huge amount more money. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Beer Man Posted October 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 whats the difference between two part polys and regular polys? Also u need that heavyduty of a mask when ur spraying outside in a very open area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 (edited) Also u need that heavyduty of a mask when ur spraying outside in a very open area? Only if you value your health. You wan't to have enough brain cells left over to play these guitars once you finish them right? Edited October 29, 2005 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 I know my opinion doesn't mean diddly to you guys, but 1) If you don't know the difference between two part and regular poly urethane you shouldn't even think about using it until you do. 2) Not only will the toxins (meaning stuff that will kill you) go through a standard respirator in amounts that will hurt you but if you are standing around in fumes the stuff will go through your skin in dangerous amounts. 3) Spraying in the back yard is a bad idea for a lot of reasons, many of which have been discussed here. It's not nice to poison mother nature. 4) I bought a kit from my local auto paint supplier with three guns and a bunch of extras for $99. The three guns aren't the same guality as my Bink's No7 or No 69 but I get absolutely great results from them. I can see that they will wear out in a couple of years where my No 7 is pushing 30 but who cares at 3/99? Again, listen to Jeremy's advice about safety. I have a significant amount of nerve damage from years of cavalier behavior, and I have had friends die over the last few years and the cause was chemical exposure. Ain't no guitar in this world that looks good enough to die for guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 I've been doing some research and found some prices you guys might be interested in. You can get an explosion proof fan large enough to ventilate a smaller booth(ie one you'd spray guitars in) for around $300 USD(I haven't priced used ones yet, but I don't know if I'd trust a used one). You can get a full face mask and positive air flow system for about $400 USD. A lot of people hook up their lights just like jeremy, sealed lexan on the walls with light fixtures outside of the booth. Unlike jeremy, a lot of people who build their own booths put the fan on the ceiling, but have it blowing air in rather than sucking it out. They then put vents in the walls, as close to the floor as possible, in which they place furnace filters. I have an old garden shed on one of my dad's properties that I think I'll confiscate and turn into a spray booth. Oh yeah, the reason a lot of spray booths are white on the inside is twofold apparently. First, it's so that the object you're spray doesn't look a different color because of the color of the walls, also, it helps to reflect the light in the booth better. Well, that's all I've got so far. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 In those booths, where does the air go when it flows out the bottom vents? If the booth is inside another room...well, you're just filling up the room with noxious fumes. In Jeremy's setup, looks like he's venting out the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Quote from Jeremy, In front of the fan (between the fan and booth) there are 2 furnace filters, these plug up fast, but at only $2 for a pack of 3 I change them regularly. Then after the fan I have 2 more filters just in case though they rarely fill up. Then it is ducted to outside. As you can see he filters it and than it's ducted outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Beer Man Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Well, my shop teacher shot my other guitar, we use nason products (dupont). Is that a two part? I thought i was because we had to thin it down. He had a free air mask cause thats all he had at the time. He has been spraying for a long time and said that he just recently got the free air system, and before that he used the resperator system. Im not trying to start conflict here, im just curious what all i need before getting started, im only 17 and dont have a lot of money at the moment which is why i was asking about the resperator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Did I not put that there were furnace filters at the bottom of the setups I saw? That's my mistake; I had meant to include that. You could very easily run the outputs on those vents to ducts that go outside. The upside to having air being pushed in from the ceiling at the center of the room is that it pushes all of your particles down so you get less overspray. At least, that's how the articles I read explained it. Listen DuffBeerMan, I'm only 18, but I can't justify risking my health for this two part urethane. However, I don't see a reason to spray anything else considering the durability of the finish you get from it. So the only logical step for me(this is just me, other people could just as easily spray nitro, if they're happy with the results). The only things that I'll need to buy new will be the explosion proof fan, the furnace filters, and the forced air system, and a sheet of lexan. I can probably source everything else out. You may be able to do the same if your smart about it. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Ok, real quick here since I'm not at home......... 2 part Poly's have the clear, and an activator, those are the 2 parts, reducer is a 3rd part. Single part poly's are the furniture crud that you can reduce and spray and pour back in the can if you want. You try pouring 2 part paints back in the can, you'll have a block of paint, nothing sprayable. Next, I don't care if you have a well ventilated room, spraying 2 part poly's without a fresh air system (forced air) is a bad idea. Spraying 2 part poly's outdoors is illegal in I believe every state. (spraying laquer is illegal in many states) The 2 part poly's absorb through skin and eyes as well, nothing short of a full mask, gloves and suit is enough protection for 2 part poly's. My new shop will have a full size booth developed for those paints, it's STILL not enough. But it's your life, there is a reason I am so adamant about the 2 part paints and safety, but now, the choice is yours, I don't care if you're 17 or 70, this stuff will take years off your life, it's up to you. But also remember your neighbors, friends, family, pets, everything will be affected if you DO NOT take proper precautions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I use a cheap $30 HVLP gun that I got on Ebay. I bought a $20 Husky moisture trap and connected it all to a 2HP/6Gal Porter Cable compressor and it works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I don't know if you do this jeremy; it's an easy thing to forget to mention. I use a normal moisture trap between my compressor and gun, but I also put another moisture trap which is pretty much a plastic bottle filled with cardboard between the hose and my gun. These filters are disposable(you really should only use them for one session of spraying) and cost about $2 a pop. It's money well spent for the added protection, IMHO. This is especially true for people who live in humid climates, like myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesj Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I use them also..... Cheap and they really work, mine was 6 bucks but its "reusable" and it has a pin valve outlet for draining it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesj Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I was just talking to my buddy from the caddy shop, he said the reason the fan blow in instead of sucking out is dust in the cracks of the shop, if you pressure the room stuff blows out of the room, if you vacum the room, well you get the idea. He also said their floors are vented, like a raised metal grating with filters underneath. he guessed at a quater mill price tag....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I haven't gotten to look at the shed that will eventually become my spray booth yet. Lucky for me, I have a slab for it to go on. Right now I'm thinking I'll have the fan blowing in from the ceiling and vents along the perimeter of the wall near the floor. Another obvious advantage to having the overspray getting sucked or pushed out of the booth near the ground is that it takes less force. Since overspray is heavier then air, it's already closer to the floor than the ceiling(speaking in terms of potential force). I won't have the space to mount lights like Jeremy. I'm thinking I'll have a couple of light fixtures recessed into the ceiling behind airtight lexan. This will be a fun little project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Beer Man Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Dont know how many ppl live in cali, but my brothers buddy did some research and found out its actaully legal to paint ur car on your property twice a year in californa lol, fun little fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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