African Vs. North American Mahogany

[stenns]

Hey,

I am looking to buy some mahogany for my les paul project. The minimum order on wood is 8 feet, so I am hoping to build the neck and the guitar out of the same stuff. My options are african mahagony at 6$CAD/bf and north american mahogany at 12$CAD/bf. Keeping in mind that the neck is gonna be built from this, what do I choose? From my understanding they are both flatsawn, but I could be mistaken about the american; I'll double check later.

a) African (cheap)

American (Expensive)

c) Don't use a flatsawn lumber for a neck no matter how expensive it is

Thanks!

[ihocky2]

First, here is a good website that makes it easy to compare different woods and they give pretty nice notes on each type of wood. Plus they run some nice sales occasionally.

http://www.woodworkerssoursce.net

I am not an expert on woods, so you are probably better off getting that advice from someone else.

As for flatsawn for a neck you are fine. Cut severla pieces and glue them together to make a laminate neck. Then just turn it on it's side and it will be close to flatsawn and have plenty of strength.

[Supernova9]

As for flatsawn for a neck you are fine. Cut severla pieces and glue them together to make a laminate neck. Then just turn it on it's side and it will be close to flatsawn and have plenty of strength.

Flatsawn necks are fine, Gibson have been making Les Pauls out of flat sawn mahogany for years, I think you'll be fine

[mammoth guitars]

http://www.woodworkerssoursce.net

Link mistyped:

http://www.woodworkerssource.net/

[Mattia]

'North American Mahogany'? South American, maybe Central American, surely? Not heard of any actually mahogany timber coming out of the US.

As for African...depends. I've built necks with Khaya that hold up fine, some pieces I find a little too flexible. Sapele makes a great neck, though.

I'd got for Honduran mahogany (ie, american mahogany) for necks, and rather laminate it to get quartered stock, for extra stability insurance, than go with flatsawn. If you do go flatsawn, make sure it's perfectly flatsawn; skew-cut wood is the least stable (like, 45 degree grain).

[orgmorg]

Cuban Mahogany ( Swietena Mahagoni ), also known as West Indies Mahogany could be considered " North American ", as it occurs naturally in the very southern tip of Florida, although very sparsely. It is considered stronger than Honduras Mahogany, but even less available.

[fryovanni]

I think you will be fine with any of them. I have worked with all of them. Sapele is the hardest of the lot, and as Mattia mentioned is a super neck wood. Khaya is lighter, slighty softer, and tends to have great "Mahogany" look. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to get quarter sawn Khaya or Sapele for the price you mentioned. The price for Honduran sounds about right also. One big factor in my mind is availability. Both Khaya and Sapele can be had in the finest cuts with no "upcharge" because of availabilty. You will find more waste and worm holes in Honduran, unless you pay for special pieces or hand select.

Peace,Rich

[SoundAt11]

Excellent point regarding the current batches of Honduran and South American Mahoganies. The last bundle I bought was approx 100 bf, FAS (first and seconds, the highest grade) and had a ton of wasted wood and to make matters worse, much of it had wooly graine, which means planing and sanding lead to fuzzy grain. I shudder to think what would have got graded as Common or worse, though this could have been poor labeling on the part of the dealer (I hope there's better trees in Honduras than that).

Contrast that with some old stock Honduran Mahogany that had been sitting in a lumber warehouse for ages, which was quite light, straight grain, and flawless.

I've cut approx 1000 board feet of African Mahogany, Khaya, and can vouch that it is excellent wood and the stability of the Quartersawn pieces. It does have variety of color, though. I've got some very light yellow colored boards at the moment, extremely lightweight, very conservative appearance. In the past, I've had reddish-brown, orange, and pinkish colored pieces that could have anywhere from swirly grain, plain grain, up to nice ribbon-strip, up to what I call "candy strip" of orange wood with brown stripes, that's the best of the bunch and is super light. It was sold to me as "African Mahogany", but the company was uncertain and I'm leaning towards it being "Cuban" myself, as normally African is lighter colored than South American.

[fryovanni]

Excellent point regarding the current batches of Honduran and South American Mahoganies. The last bundle I bought was approx 100 bf, FAS (first and seconds, the highest grade) and had a ton of wasted wood and to make matters worse, much of it had wooly graine, which means planing and sanding lead to fuzzy grain. I shudder to think what would have got graded as Common or worse, though this could have been poor labeling on the part of the dealer (I hope there's better trees in Honduras than that).

Contrast that with some old stock Honduran Mahogany that had been sitting in a lumber warehouse for ages, which was quite light, straight grain, and flawless.

I've cut approx 1000 board feet of African Mahogany, Khaya, and can vouch that it is excellent wood and the stability of the Quartersawn pieces. It does have variety of color, though. I've got some very light yellow colored boards at the moment, extremely lightweight, very conservative appearance. In the past, I've had reddish-brown, orange, and pinkish colored pieces that could have anywhere from swirly grain, plain grain, up to nice ribbon-strip, up to what I call "candy strip" of orange wood with brown stripes, that's the best of the bunch and is super light. It was sold to me as "African Mahogany", but the company was uncertain and I'm leaning towards it being "Cuban" myself, as normally African is lighter colored than South American.

"Honduran" or "Genuine" is not likely to be coming from Honduras. It was over harvested. If you find very old stock you may actually find the real deal.

I think buying quartersawn FAS grade. You would expect about 50% waste in Genuine, and maybe of that 5-10% would be fine cuts. Sapele I find is 5-10% waste, and maybe 70% fine cuts. Khaya I find is maybe 20% waste, and maybe 40% fine cuts. That sound about like what you find?

As far as the African Mahogany you describe. That sounds like some really cool quartersawn Khaya that was floating around. Strong ribbon with lighter colors and very high shine. Nice stuff. There is no mistaking Cuban and Khaya. If it is Cuban it will be much harder. Sapele and Khaya are commonly as dark or darker than "Genuine". There are other central American Mahoganies that are similar to genuine,but darker also.

Peace,Rich

[SoundAt11]

"Honduran" or "Genuine" is not likely to be coming from Honduras. It was over harvested. If you find very old stock you may actually find the real deal.

I think buying quartersawn FAS grade. You would expect about 50% waste in Genuine, and maybe of that 5-10% would be fine cuts. Sapele I find is 5-10% waste, and maybe 70% fine cuts. Khaya I find is maybe 20% waste, and maybe 40% fine cuts. That sound about like what you find?

As far as the African Mahogany you describe. That sounds like some really cool quartersawn Khaya that was floating around. Strong ribbon with lighter colors and very high shine. Nice stuff. There is no mistaking Cuban and Khaya. If it is Cuban it will be much harder. Sapele and Khaya are commonly as dark or darker than "Genuine". There are other central American Mahoganies that are similar to genuine,but darker also.

Peace,Rich

Having not worked with Sapele yet (yet, I'm going to buy some soon), I'd agree. The current "Genuine Mahogany", at least what I've found locally, wasn't that great. I'd say a 1/3 of it would be wooly or knotty or full of holes. I flat out won't buy it again unless I can put my eyes on some clean wood. The African Mahogany is plentiful, reasonably priced, and is very good quality. I wish the guitar companies would switch to it rather than using "Honduran Mahogany", just for the name value.

On Khaya (African), hmmm.....if it's FAS, it's awesome. Select or Better grade, maybe 10-15% is waste. When you get down into the Common Grades, then it's a gamble. You might find a perfect board mixed in with some wormy boards or the most beautiful board that happens to have cracks on an end or a knot in the middle, although sometimes there's perfect boards that have been overdried/left out in the lumber yard to long, so I'd stay away from Common grade unless you can inspect a cleanly planed piece very closely.

This would be the best batch of "African Mahogany" (said on the invoice) that I've run across:

http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/05/80/c0_1.JPG

The dark one with dark stripes, must not be Cuban Mahogany. It's certainly not hard, it's very soft and ridiculously light. Must have been a random awesome tree in Africa, because that whole batch of wood was the most perfect batch of Mahogany I've ever run across, lightweight, dark orange color, cuts like butter, and beautiful striping. It looks different than any of the Afr Mahog or Genuine Mahog that I run across and I wish I could find more just like it.

Edited August 11, 2006 by SoundAt11

[Lord-of-the-strings]

Pretty sure mahogany does not grow in north america. Mainly brazil isnt it? And a comment to Supernova9s comment, arent broken necks the most common damage done to an lp?

[fryovanni]

Sound- That does look like a batch of quartersawn Khaya that showed up a while back. Nice stuff.