Shredder Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 (edited) Hey everyone, first and foremost I'd like to say thank you to everyone in this site, it has helped me so much in my guitar project . You guys rock . But I had a question; I wanted to do my Ibanez Destroyer from the original red to a satin/flat white. I know pretty sweet . Got all the black hardware already, upgraded the pickups to Seymour Duncan's, and I'm just wondering about what paint would be best to just do the Satin White Finish. I've always been a fan of Satin colors because on my Satin Black Ibanez RG (Strat style) with EMG pickups and it looks awesome. I've been very hesitant to do it because its my first time every sanding off the old paint and painting it. Don't really want to screw this up. So does anyone have a list of where to get all the supplies needed? And like some rough numbers on how many of each? I have another body to practice on, so maybe I need double the supplies? (Strat style body). Once again, thanks to everyone here, you've given me so much help, it’s ridiculous. Thanks, -John aka SHREDDER Information about Destroyer: Basswood body Maple Neck (want to make that satin too) Edited June 6, 2006 by Shredder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredder Posted June 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Ah and I forgot, I was wondering if this book actually works. Here's the website http://www.paintyourownguitar.com/ Thanks agian, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al heeley Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 If you are careful you can get a pretty decent finish just with auto spray cans. The satin finish is just about not going for a hi gloss at the end, so you only sand up to say 1000 grit wet'n'dry and don't buff it up or clear coat the finish. That will give you a good, smooth but satin, not high gloss - finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanb Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 First of all, do not strip your existing finish all the way back to bare wood. There is no reason to do that (it's hard work), and you would be giving up a very good factory sealer coat. Just sand it back so the new caots will adhere and start with the new finish (assuming the materials are compatible). A lot of people say to do a flat finish by simply not completing the buffing. That does give a flat initial finish, but it will slowly become more glossy in the wear areas (which get "buffed" over time) and will look like crap. It also doesn't look the same as a properly buffed finish. The best way to do a matte finish is by adding a flattening agent to the finish. It then is buffed out the same as for a gloss finish. No amount of buffing will ever make that finish go glossy, but you don't have the fine sanding scratches in the finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredder Posted June 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Ah thanks so far for all the information, but for ryanb, how do I know when to stop sanding (to keep the factory sealer?) and if anyone can give me like what sandpaper to start with and end with, that would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 ryanb, Do you have pics of any satin finishes you've done? I've actually heard just the opposite about the flattening agent. I've heard that it's not suppose to be buffed out and that it WILL become glossy in areas that are exposed to normal wear (forearm contours, etc..). I've also heard that the flattening agent clouds the finish. Not a big deal if it's a solid white, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be too good for paintjobs containing vibrant colors and/or graphics. Shedder, As for the "Paint your own Guitar" book ... I strongly suggest you avoid doing any paintjobs with Krylon (or any other spraypaint). The pics in the book are pretty, but they're not a true representation of what those guitars are going to look like in a very short period of time (I'm talking weeks). Save yourself ALOT of time and frustration and do it right the first time with 2-pac urethane or an instrument grade lacquer. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredder Posted June 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 (edited) Also, where would I buy all the supplies needed? Is there a site online? I mean I'd need the sand paper, paint, and the spray bottle if necessary. And by the way, thanks Dino, I trust the people on this forum so far more then the book haha. Edited June 7, 2006 by Shredder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al heeley Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Come on! There's help and then there's Spoon-Feeding! You can search google like the rest of us - how do we know what shops you have in your area? Paint can be found at a paint shop. Sandpaper from a hardware shop. It's not rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Come on! There's help and then there's Spoon-Feeding! You can search google like the rest of us - how do we know what shops you have in your area? Paint can be found at a paint shop. Sandpaper from a hardware shop. It's not rocket science. It's replies like this that prevent me from visiting this site on a regular basis ... Your best bet Shredder, is to call a couple local automotive body shops to find a paint supplier in your area. Unless your sanding your deck, you won't find the sandpaper you need at a hardware store. Check automotive supply places like Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc., and look for various grits up to 2000. Your starting grit would depend on whether you're stripping your old finish, or wetsanding your new paintjob. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 I strongly suggest you avoid doing any paintjobs with Krylon (or any other spraypaint). The pics in the book are pretty, but they're not a true representation of what those guitars are going to look like in a very short period of time (I'm talking weeks). Save yourself ALOT of time and frustration and do it right the first time with 2-pac urethane or an instrument grade lacquer. I agree, kind of. It's definitely true that the lacquer that comes out of the can (acrylic automotive stuff) is really fragile, and starts getting banged up pretty much the day you polish it. If you're the careful type, it's not a problem, or if you like a reliced guitar, it's not a problem. But it won't look like a 'real' guitar finish. For that, you're better off going around to the body shops in your areas--chances are you'll find one that has already done a guitar or two. And it will probably cost LESS than buying all of the spray cans you need. You'd have to buy a respirator and other protective gear too. I've given up on this kind of finish altogether, at least for the time being. I'm starting to work with oil finishes--they have their own drawbacks, of course. But at least I don't have to worry about toxic chemicals. That won't help with the finish you're trying to get though. Oh yeah, at my auto shop, they have clear satin lacquer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Dino, weren't you like the "Factory Finish" poster boy? What made you stop using the Krylon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Dino, weren't you like the "Factory Finish" poster boy? What made you stop using the Krylon? Poster boy? I did come to this site some time ago and mentioned the book when I first got it. And if I remember correctly, I was chastised and even accused of being the author himself who joined the forum just to "pimp my book". I was eventually banned by Perry (Rhodes56) for the use of "vulgar language" by stating that "I didn't give a rats @ss what people thought". Bitter? ... uh, yeah. I originally joined this forum in hopes of learning and sharing ideas with adults. I think we can handle the use of the word @ss from time to time, don't you? Anyway, there's no doubt that this posting will be brought to Perry's attention, so let's just all assume I'm already "banned" and unable to respond to this thread. Not to avoid your question marksound, but shoot me an email and we can discuss the pros and cons of Krylon. Thanks bro. Dino DGW@dinosguitarworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 perry isn't a mod anymore i dont think, so he wont ban you, and "@ss" or the real word are neither reason to be banned i think he just was upset and over reacted, this IS a great forum with lots of free knowledge ready for absorbtion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 If I recall, Perry (and others) were more upset with the other guy that started the flame war, and shut it down when it got out of hand. That doesn't happen very often here, so please feel free to hang around. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 (edited) WoW!!!! You mean I'm not banned??? Whoo Hooo!!!!! And thanks for the welcome! Totally unexpected and much appreciated. I promise I will try to control my potty mouth from now on. Regarding Krylon ... Following my very first Krylon paintjob, I did join this forum and initially encouraged people to try Krylon, but after using it for the past couple years and painting over a dozen or so guitars, I've come to find too many disadvantages and inconsistancies, so I've switched over to using acrylic urethane. I'm not saying that acrylic urethane is "the best". That's obviously a matter of opinion, but I have been amazed at the difference and can now say that I have truly learned how to acheive a "factory finish", and it's not with spraycans. I recieved an email concerning the use of Krylon from a fellow member here earlier today and thought I might post my respose for those interested. Hopefully it will answer alot of your questions and concerns about painting guitars with Krylon. Regarding the Krylon ... You should have realistic expectations as far as results. There are some advantages, and some disadvantages .... but I'd have to say there's more disadvantages. Advantages ... It's inexpensive, easy to find (Walmart, Ace Hardware, etc.), no equipment required, and clean up is easy (just throw away the can). Disadvantages ... The books tell you to wait 8-weeks before wetsanding, but with 30+ coats of Krylon, it will take at least a year to fully cure. During that time, you may experience chemical reactions such as wrinkling, cracking, etc. Sometimes this won't happen until after you wetsand and apply the compound. It's very inconsistant and very unpredictable. If you plan on using pickgaurds, or have any hardware that will come into contact with the body, you have to be very careful when reassembling your guitar and never tighten down on any of the screws or the pickgaurd (or hardware) will sink into the finish and cause the paint around it to wrinkle. You must also be very careful not to allow any water to come into contact with any of the exposed wood (cavities) or holes in the body while wetsanding. If you do, the water will get under the paint and cause the paint to wrinkle and crack as the wood expands and contracts. I guess that's true with any paint though. If you're lucky and everything works in your favor, your paintjob will look nice and shiney ..... for a short period of time only (I'm talking a matter of days or maybe weeks). Even when the guitar has been completed, you REALLY have to treat it with kid gloves and hang it on a wall hanger ONLY. No keeping it in a case or the fur from the lining will leave impressions. No keeping it on a stand or the rubber will eat away at the paint. No leaning the body up against anything or it will leave impressions. You may even notice impressions in the paint from simply resting the guitar in your lap when you play it. The paint will stay very soft for a very long time, and by the time it does fully cure, well ... let's just say it will look nothing like it did that first day you polished it up. The PYOG books are cool in that they show you the basics of masking and stuff, but I'm afraid the results you see may be a little misleading. The finished pics shown in the books and on the site were most likely taken very shortly after the finishes were buffed out for the first time. I can almost gaurantee those same guitars look nothing like that today. Just to give you an example ... Here is a Krylon paintjob I finished just recently. I let the paint on this body cure for 6 months (since Nov. '05). I got my compressor and spraygun gear around Christmas and didn't get around to finishing it until just recently. These pics were taken right after I had wetsanded, buffed, and reassembled the guitar. By the looks of these pics, it's very easy to understand why alot of people would be tempted to use Krylon. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a274/DinoBonanno/VH1b.jpg http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a274/DinoBonanno/VH1c.jpg After the pictures were taken, I returned the guitar to it's wall hanger and this is how it looked just three weeks later. The guitar had not even been touched since the photos were taken. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a274/Din...anno/Group1.jpg http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a274/Din...anno/Group2.jpg This didn't happen because of something I did or didn't do. This was apparently due to some sort of chemical reaction caused by the rubbing compound. The same rubbing compound recommended in the DIY books. Fortunately (or unfortunately), this is an awesome playing guitar. The body is solid mahogany and the neck is a Musikraft maple with 70's style headstock. I can only imagine how 30+ coats of Krylon has effected the tone and resonance. Eventually, I will be stripping this one and repainting it correctly. I will say this about Krylon ... For relic paintjobs, it probably works great! But after all, aren't those paintjobs suppose to look like crap? BTW, I owe a BIG apology to Shredder for hijacking his thread. I'm really sorry ... that was never my intent. If anyone has any more questions regarding Krylon, please feel free to email me directly. And thanks again for the welcome. It's nice to be back. Dino DGW@dinosguitarworks.com Edited June 8, 2006 by Dino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Thanks for sharing that - good info, Dino. You'll need to change some of those pics to links - the rule is one image per post, maximum size 480 x 640. Welcome back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Thanks for sharing that - good info, Dino. You'll need to change some of those pics to links - the rule is one image per post, maximum size 480 x 640. Welcome back! I went back and edited the pics to links. Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) Sorry to have gone off topic, but I'm still very interested in finding out if what I heard about the "flattening agent" is correct or not. (read below) If ryanb can't help here, can someone else please set me straight? Thanks! ryanb, Do you have pics of any satin finishes you've done? I've actually heard just the opposite about the flattening agent. I've heard that it's not suppose to be buffed out and that it WILL become glossy in areas that are exposed to normal wear (forearm contours, etc..). I've also heard that the flattening agent clouds the finish. Not a big deal if it's a solid white, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be too good for paintjobs containing vibrant colors and/or graphics. Edited June 8, 2006 by Dino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I believe you're confusing things; flattening agent will make the finish intrinsically 'flat', so should be a buffable finish. If you knock back a gloss finish with, say, steel wool, it will polish itself. Satin finishes tend to be softer than gloss, IIRC, so you may want to use satin only for the top (few) coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) Satin finishes tend to be softer than gloss, IIRC, so you may want to use satin only for the top (few) coats. The guitar I'm working on (EVH Camo) was painted with acrylic urethane. There were several layers due to the camo graphics and stripes, so I have already cleared it with a urethane gloss, and wetsanded the finish even and flat. Then I went over it with 0000 steel wool. It now has a semi-gloss finish, and I was maybe hoping to add another coat of clear with the flattening agent to help acheive more of a flat "military" look, but I'd also like to be able to "buff" it out to help blend everything in the final stages. Can this be done? And what do you mean by "satin finishes tend to be softer than gloss"? Does it take more time to cure? Is it more suseptable to damage? If so, I'll most likely just stick with the semi-gloss finish I now have. I dunno. Edited June 8, 2006 by Dino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 How IS the EVH Camo going, Dino? Dying to see the finished results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsnap Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 I have recently read great things about Marine grade polyester resin finishes, from people who use it to finish guitars. Yes...polyester. It's a hard, slick resin used to finish boats and other watercraft. I've never worked with it so I can't give any reviews but on my next finishing endeavor I will definitly do some research and consider giving it a go. Hard, durable and waterproof...what more could a guitar ask for?!? I don't know if a flat or matte finish can be achieved using it though so I don't know how much this post will help in regard to the original topic...Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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