TheCross Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 http://elderly.com/images/new_instruments/...dstock-back.jpg something like that? Gives a nice feel and supports the critical area. my question would be how Iam supposed to do that when I use the slice-off n glue-on neck technique for an angled headstock(sorry dunno how to call it exactly hope you get my point)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 That bump on the back of the neck (guitar's neck, not yours ) is called a volute. The attachment of the headstock like you are describing is called a scarf joint. With a scarf joint, if you make the headstock piece thick enough, and the head-neck joint far enough from the nut, you can carve out a volute with no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCross Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 muchas gracias. is there anything else I have to consider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 muchas gracias. is there anything else I have to consider? I thought the advantage of using a scarf joint is that you don't need a volute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azn_guitarist Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 muchas gracias. is there anything else I have to consider? I thought the advantage of using a scarf joint is that you don't need a volute? imo i totally agree with that statement though you can feel free to flame me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 They do the same thing in different ways. The volute does provide mass under the nut where the truss rod channel is routed out, and this protects the area. But some players also like the feel of it. A scarf joint allows you to create a headstock with the grain running parallel to the headstock face under the nut. This also helps to strengthen that area, but in a different way. This also helps prevent a headstock break at other areas of the headstock. It also allows you to make a neck with a tilt-back headstock from 4/4 wood, resulting in less waste. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I've seen a scarfed neck with a volute. They may be out there, I just can't recall seeing one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I've seen a scarfed neck with a volute. I'm pretty sure you have - I've had two win GOTM! I use a scarfed headstock, veneered front and back, flowing out into a volute. What with the ears and the veneers you can't see any evidence that the head is scarfed. Here's a picture: I'll snap a photo of my last one in a while, that one doesn't show the details very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Ditto. Except for the winning part ;-) If you've seen any of my guitars, you've seen voluted, scarf-jointed headstocks. It's all I use. To me, they do slightly different things; one is about preventing short grain, the other is about adding a little bit of mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dash Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 To me, they do slightly different things; one is about preventing short grain, the other is about adding a little bit of mass they do something else too, they look dead sexy!!! cheers darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Agreed. I think that a volute probably strengthens the area between 1st fret and e-stirng tuners on a one piece neck, but it does nothing for the rest of the head, so all it's doing is moving the problem. My headstock design eliminate most of the short grain by scarfing the head, reinforces the small remaining short grain area with a volute, and caps it all off with veneers for extra reinforcement. Also (IMO) it looks snazzy, and it the kind of cosmetic touch which sets apart a handmade instrument from a high end factory guitar. Here's a pic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 How thick is that rosewood you're bending on the back there, setch? Any tips? Also, does anyone want to share their "approach" for making a voluted headstock? The neck end of the volute where it blends into the neck doesn't seem to be much of a problem for me (although I could use more practice, it seems to go pretty much like general neck-shaping) The headstock end, blending the end of the volute into the headstock is the part that I have problems with - It seems like it'd be easier to thin the headstock prior to gluing the scarf joint, but I have no clue how to go about that and plan around the volute prior to gluing, so I've been gluing the thick headstock wood into the scarf joint, then attempting to thin the headstock to the proper thickness, whilst leaving the wood for the volute, all of which is a tricky operation. My hand planes won't get in there (maybe it's time for a bullnose plane?) I can't figure out how to hold the neck safely for a router operation - I've just been getting in there with files and rasps and what have you, and roughing it in as best I can and then trying to sand level. I've thought of using my fathers drill press with a sanding drum, but it seems like an awful lot to sand out at once. Once the remaining headstock is roughly thicknessed, the volute isn't too hard to shape, but it's that first part I'm having trouble with, keeping the headstock evenly thick and roughing in the headstock thickness while leaving the volute area intact. Although I haven't started that area on my current project, so maybe it will get easier this time. Actually - now that I think about it, is this just one of those operations you folks do with a bandsaw? I need to get access to one of those… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I've been doing them purely by hand; rasps, sandpaper, done, although a sanding drum is ideal for this. Bandsaw's only relevant if you're doing a 1-piece neck, in this case. IMO. By gluing the scarf to the back of the blank (ie, the method that allows you to hide the joint on the back of the headstock), you get enough 'meat' out of the shaft section, particularly if you're starting with a 1" blank. I Bring the headstock thickness down before gluing, leaving only a tiny amount to sand/plane off the front for cleanup, essentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 What about using a cabinet scraper for shaping the headstock? Since it's a flat piece, that would provide pretty good control, especially with keeping the headstock flat, right? Maybe rough shape the headstock angle with a router first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I'll try and get some pics next time I make a neck, it's a bit involved to try and describe without pics, but I'll try. I scarf the head, and plane the face of the headstock flat. I double check the fretboard area is flat, and then mark everything out on the blank. I draw on the neck thickness, headstock thickness, volute etc. Whilst the blank is still square, I take it over to my spindle sander, and with the largest drum I sand the curve where the back of the head curves into the volute. I make sure that the curve is parallel to the nut, perpendicular to the centreline of the neck, and just barely meets the line which indiciates my headstock thickness. Before I had the spindle sander I did this with a sanding drum attached to a hand drill in a cheap drill stand - not ideal, but it worked. Once that's done, I tape the face of the headstock to a flat surface, and use my router thicknessing setup to thickness it. Getting the final thickness to flow perfectly into the curve sometimes requires a little fussing with a curved sanding block and tiny plane. Once I'm happy that the curve is correct, and the head is even thickness and flat, I trim the head stock to the same width as the base of my headstock (ie: the widest point of the curve out from the nut, where it joins the flat sides of the head ). Then, I glue on ears to make the headstock wide enough. If you're carefull, you can line everything up so the glued on ears taper to nothing where they meet the curve out from the nut. If you manage it, there is no end grain in the headstock blend to show you're using glued up ears. Once the ears are glued on I run the plane over the headstock face, just trimming the ears flush, then use a 1.5" scary sharp chisel and a scraper to trim the ears flush at the back. Once it's all flat and smooth, I glue on my veneers, The back veneer is 1.5mm constructional veneer, which I prebend. I spray it with de-ionised water, wrap it in aluminium foil, then heat it with a hot air gun, and bend it around the sanding drum I use to shape the curve. The drum is machine from solid aluminium so I can get it hot without any worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 What about using a cabinet scraper for shaping the headstock? Since it's a flat piece, that would provide pretty good control, especially with keeping the headstock flat, right? Maybe rough shape the headstock angle with a router first? I wouldn't necessarily trust a scraper to maintain a flat; you tend to flex it slightly when cutting, and working at an angle, which can create dips and valleys. I use scrapers all the time for fine-tuning shapes, including this one, but they're not the way to make the initial shape, IMO. Fine-tuning, transitions, smoothing out volutes, definitely. If I want to flatten the back of the headstock, I usually use a sanding block with the edges rounded over to prevent dings. Bit of scrap wood. And sand unidirecitonally, no circular motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I wouldn't necessarily trust a scraper to maintain a flat; you tend to flex it slightly when cutting, and working at an angle, which can create dips and valleys. I use scrapers all the time for fine-tuning shapes, Okay, good to know! I do find the scraper awesome for fine tuning...great control and you can really see what you're doing (unlike with sanding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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