Steve R Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 G'day everyone! Thought I'd stop in here and ask for some opinions. last year I decided that I'd spend the time (and cash) to get my main guitar working and sounding just how I want it to. It's a maple & alder body, with a maple neck and ebony fretboard. So as you can imagine, it's a pretty bright machine! Anyway, I won't bore you all with details of my trials and errors, but in the end, I've got two Seymore Duncan humbuckers in it, an 'Alnico Pro II' in the neck, and a 'Custom Custom' in the bridge. This setup has been alright, although to be honest, I can't say I've been 100% satisfied with it. Lately I've really been noticing that I've having trouble getting a bood sound on both pickups. The trouble is... I really like the sound of each of these pickups individually, but together, it's hard to get a good setting that will sound great on both, either the bridge is too bright, or the neck is too dark. Anyone have any sugestions? I like the big fat sound of the APH-II, but I also like the gain of the Custom Custom. I'd thought of swapping it for a Pearly Gates in the Bridge, but then read that they're even brighter, so I suspect that's not the way to go! Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated. I play in a band where I'm the only guitarist, so I'd like a fairly even tone. Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prs man Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 (edited) G'day everyone! Thought I'd stop in here and ask for some opinions. last year I decided that I'd spend the time (and cash) to get my main guitar working and sounding just how I want it to. It's a maple & alder body, with a maple neck and ebony fretboard. So as you can imagine, it's a pretty bright machine! Anyway, I won't bore you all with details of my trials and errors, but in the end, I've got two Seymore Duncan humbuckers in it, an 'Alnico Pro II' in the neck, and a 'Custom Custom' in the bridge. This setup has been alright, although to be honest, I can't say I've been 100% satisfied with it. Lately I've really been noticing that I've having trouble getting a bood sound on both pickups. The trouble is... I really like the sound of each of these pickups individually, but together, it's hard to get a good setting that will sound great on both, either the bridge is too bright, or the neck is too dark. Anyone have any sugestions? I like the big fat sound of the APH-II, but I also like the gain of the Custom Custom. I'd thought of swapping it for a Pearly Gates in the Bridge, but then read that they're even brighter, so I suspect that's not the way to go! Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated. I play in a band where I'm the only guitarist, so I'd like a fairly even tone. Cheers, Steve I use duncan 59 bridge in one of my guitars and a jb bridge in another both sound nice for rock or a blues and just about everything I think. both pickups have a growl [in your face sound to them .] there not a wimppy pickup. hope that helps Edited July 24, 2006 by prs man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Well, maybe you could change the neck pickup instead? Because I can't think of really many other pickups to tame brigthness... Your problem is getting a good sound when the pickup selector is on the middle setting? Maybe you could try a petrucci-type wireing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Either try a Custom 5 in the bridge or swap out the magnet in the CC for an Alnico V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Watch out. I truly LOVE the Custom 5, It's what I got in my main axe, but it's a REALLY bright pickup... So much i'm thinking of wireing it to a 250k pot, actually. I wouldn't try it in a guitar that bright... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 either the bridge is too bright, or the neck is too dark. Another option, and the least expensive, would be to try out different capacitor values. See if you can bleed the high frequencies off the bridge and allow more highs into the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 either the bridge is too bright, or the neck is too dark. Another option, and the least expensive, would be to try out different capacitor values. See if you can bleed the high frequencies off the bridge and allow more highs into the neck. I was thinking that last night, will have to have a play around when I get a few spare minutes. From memory I've just got .022uF on both (or is it .0022uF?) I've also got a treble bleed on each, paralleled with a resistor (150K?) to change the curve of the pot a little. I also thought of the new neck pickup option, might even slip the old stock one back in some time to see how that pairs with the Custom Custom. As for the tones in the middle position, I can get a good sound, but that's probably achieved through blending just the right amount of each pickup to get a balanced tone. Thanks for all the suggestions guys, really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 either the bridge is too bright, or the neck is too dark. Another option, and the least expensive, would be to try out different capacitor values. See if you can bleed the high frequencies off the bridge and allow more highs into the neck. I was thinking that last night, will have to have a play around when I get a few spare minutes. From memory I've just got .022uF on both (or is it .0022uF?) I've also got a treble bleed on each, paralleled with a resistor (150K?) to change the curve of the pot a little. I also thought of the new neck pickup option, might even slip the old stock one back in some time to see how that pairs with the Custom Custom. As for the tones in the middle position, I can get a good sound, but that's probably achieved through blending just the right amount of each pickup to get a balanced tone. Thanks for all the suggestions guys, really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted July 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 crafty Posted Jul 25 2006, 01:23 AM Either try a Custom 5 in the bridge or swap out the magnet in the CC for an Alnico V. Just thinking... aren't Alnico V's generally brighter than Alnico II's? or do I have that the wrong way around? I know when I first got this guitar quite a few years ago, it had an old DiMarzio super distorion (Ceramic?)in the bridge, and it was piercingly bright, I popped a Screamin Deamon in (Alnico V?) and it was not a piercing, but still too bright, when I installed the Custom Custom it was a lot more balanced. Anyway, I thought I'd just post this, in case anyones interested! I dug out the original neck pickup and popped it in. It sounded a whole lot better than I remembered! ...And it sounds beautiful coil-tapped (it's 2 wire, originally set up with a coil tap switch as stock), doesn't have any hum at all, unlike both the Duncans I had in there which I ended up wiring to switch to parallel to avoid the hum. I'm still finding the CC a little too bright, but they are much more balanced now... However... NOW I'm having trouble with the tone when they're both selected. If both pickups are selected, with the neck is tapped, the sound is very thin and almost 'out of phase' sounding with the neck volume rolled down at all. I measured the pickup impedance (well, DC resistance anyway), the neck is 4K4 (2K2 tapped) compared to the 13-14K of the CC, does that explain why when selected together (with the neck tapped) they don't really work too well? With the neck working as a normal HB all seems fine, could the super low impedance of the neck be the problem? Is there a way around it? In the band I play in, there's just the one guitar, so I really rely on all the sounds of my guitar, and the middle position with both pickups tapped (or in parallel, depending on the guitar) and volumes fairly low is one of my most common sounds, so I'd love to get it sounding right. "Pr3Va1L Posted Jul 24 2006, 08:24 PM Well, maybe you could change the neck pickup instead? Because I can't think of really many other pickups to tame brigthness... Your problem is getting a good sound when the pickup selector is on the middle setting? Maybe you could try a petrucci-type wireing? " Well, looks like so far you're right! could you explain the Petrucci wiring to me? I'm sure I've heard that mentioned before, but never really looked into it. Thanks again guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Having a pickup with an A5 or Ceramic magnet doesn't necessarily make it brighter or darker--it depends more on the resistance of the coils. A2 pickups can actually sound brighter sometimes just because of the lower string pull that allows higher notes to ring longer. That's one reason why the Duncan APH-1 is so popular even though it's a low power pickup--it's resistance and string pull are relatively low and the higher notes just ring out and sustain longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted July 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Ahhh, ok, that's good to know. I had always just associated the different magnet types with the generall tone (Ceramic = brighter/punchier, Alnico = darker/smoother). Thanks for that. I was just thinking about why I'm getting this horrible sound. At the moment, I've got this guitar wired up in the way that lets either volume control act as a master when in the centre position. If I re-wired it so that they were independant, would they then have less interaction? Possibly killing this thin tone? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Your volume setup is fine--all production Les Pauls and SGs are set up like that. The CC is probably out of phase and polarity with the stock pickup, so try reversing the wires. You may need to reverse the magnet in the neck pickup, too. I was thinking, another thing you might try is reversing the CC so that the hot (screw pole) coil is facing the neck rather than the bridge. That might take some of the bite out of the highs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted July 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Ok, thanks for the ideas. My first suspicion was that one of the pickups was out of phase, but when the volumes are right up, or the neck is working as a full humbucker, they sound normal. Still, I'll give it a go and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted August 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Well, I ended up going home and plugging the guitar into my scope, ad sure enough, tiny output signal with both pickups, indicating... of course... out of phase. I guess the reason it tricked me, was because it still sounded alright if the neck pickup was not tapped, or if the volumes were up. Ahh well, live and learn. After swapping all four wires on the CC, I re-scoped it, signals were all what you'd expect to see, and when I plugged it into an amp, the tone, definition, and dynamic control were all back the way they should be. So thank you VERY much for pointing out the (probably too obvious!) solution for me. After our midweek gig, I've decided that these pickups are very well balanced, yes, the CC can be a little bright, but I can imagine if I were to loose the highs somehow, there would be some occasions when I'd be wanting to get more bite out of it, but not be able to, so I think it'll stay as it is for now. One more questions though, Someone mentioned to me that if I find that one pickup is out of phase to the other (which it was) that rather than reversing the wires, I could reverse the magnets instead. I'm just wondering, is there any advantage to doing that, rather than just swapping the wires around? Because it's a 4 conductor cable on the CC, I've still got the coils being fed in the fight order (probably not the right term, but I'm sure you know what I mean), any reason I should consider this, or is it just achieving the same thing I've just done, but just with a little more fiddling around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Being in-phase magnetically between the two pickups may help if you're still having problems balancing the pickups in the middle position. If it sounds okay now, I wouldn't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted August 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Being in-phase magnetically between the two pickups may help if you're still having problems balancing the pickups in the middle position. If it sounds okay now, I wouldn't worry about it. Thanks, that's what I would have thought. Thank you VERY much for your help getting this sorted, really appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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