peterhanson Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 I got this idea while I was watching a documentary of some Prisoners of War escaping from captivity, using a glider that was built in the attic of their place of imprisonment. One of the things that caught my eye was the outer shell they put on the glider. The outer shell consisted of cloth that was saturated with some sort of shellac making it hard. I then thought, why couldn't someone use this to make a guitar, a semi hollobody perhaps. So would a semi hollow body guitar consisting of shellacked cloth work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 Go for it! Sounds cool! Make sure it's only SEMI hollow though. IE: The body is real wood, and it has a big enough center block to accomodate the bridge and pickups and neck all being attached to it. IE: The hardened cloth would merely be like a drop top on top of it. Cause I mean, if you really want to, you can build a semi with NO top as long as there's wood to hold the bridge, neck, and pickups down the center. So I see no problem with this idea. And you never know, the acoustic characteristics that this gives off may be quite interesting. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acousticraft Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 I'm not sure shellac would be rigid enough. Better to use fiberglass and cloth. You could make it black and look cool by using carbon fiber cloth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 I was thinking something like this, without the f holes Carbon fiber! I should have thought of that. I remember seeing some acoustic guitars with a carbon fiber top on it. That would rock. I got the design from first act Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 I've been thinking about this all day and seeing as how the top is going to be carbon fiber and the sides are going to be wood that is 2 mm in thickness, will there be anyway to put a binding on? I'm pretty sure the traditional way of putting a binding on with a router will obviously not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 I actually think the carbon fiber look isn't as cool as what you were originally thinking. I think the cloth ala wright brother's airplane look would be cooler. You could perhaps soak the cloth with epoxy to harden it, laying on some celophane so that it doens't stick to anything. Then when driedcut it to shape and glue it to the body. Maybe spray a amber tinted clear over it to give it that "aged cloth" look. Actually, nm, don't try that, I'll do it (jk, go ahead if ya want). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Well I have to finish the guitar I'm working on before I even think of starting another one. But I was thinking that I wouldn't necesarily have to make just one guitar . And go ahead and do what you want, It'd be cool to see the different approaches from two different builders. I also thought of a way of putting f holes in the cloth top... I'm stoked about starting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Oh hahahaha, I'm just playing, I already have WAY too many projects in line before I can even THINK about this: -Two original designs for the next 6 months. -Bass, same as the one I'm currently doing for a friend (see my threads) but for me. -Archtop -Brian May Red Special -Acoustic So yeah.... there's no way I'm getting to it, even in the next couple years haahaha Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 YES! Just kidding. Looks like you have a great list and a bunch of work ahead, look forward to seeing all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 So for this project i'm gonna need wood for the sides of the body... does anyone know where I can buy really wide wood for the sides so i only have to bend one side and then cut it in half to attain both sides. This would make it easier to get a symmetrical body. Would acoustic guitar side wood be wide enough to cut in half? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 If you're going to have a top like cloth... I would NOT suggest bent sides. I'd recommend hollowing ala a Red Special, take a slab of wood, and hollow everything but 1/2" on the sides and the center block... MAYBE I'd agree if it's the carbon fiber... but with an experimentation build like this I'd go "safe" on the first try. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Ok, That would make sense, seeing as how i would lose some stability by using cloth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Sounds like maybe using a wet goat skin stretched over the frame, like a banjo head used to be made.Interesting idea!. MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Goat skin! These are all awesome ideas. Now I have to build three guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 So for this project i'm gonna need wood for the sides of the body... does anyone know where I can buy really wide wood for the sides so i only have to bend one side and then cut it in half to attain both sides. This would make it easier to get a symmetrical body. Would acoustic guitar side wood be wide enough to cut in half? You could always use forms and laminate up the side about 4 in in highth and whatver thickness you desire then cut it for two 2in /highmatching pieces. I hope that makes some sense??? MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 I do understand the part about the thickness, but i'm a little confused about laminating for highth. how would that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 I do understand the part about the thickness, but i'm a little confused about laminating for highth. how would that work? What I meant was use some 1/16 or 1/8th thickness lams 4 in wide this would give and effective highth of 4inches and then rip it in on a bandsaw, (since it is bent from the forms) then you have two 2in thick/high sides that are the same and whatever width based on # of lams. MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 gotcha. I like this method, I'll definetly keep it in mind while approaching this build. now i just have to learn how to bend the lumber... back to the ole forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Interesting ideas. Do a little research on some of the modern double top(acoustics) that are being made. That may give you some ideas on how to get sufficient strength from using composite panels(be it wood or fabric). Model airplane or airplane construction would be another source for info. Sides could be bent or routed from a solid blank(bending is cheaper). Most acoustic sides are 4.5-5" and if you track down a dealer they may make you a great deal on a odd cut(say 5 pieces from a billet 2 sets and a spare). Given the unknowns in the method a center block. I am not really sure what the resonance of epoxy over fabric would be like, but if it is primarily electric it should function. Great thinking outside the box. With some good planning it could be pretty cool. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 so to find a supplier for the wood, would i go to the project guitar homepage and just use their supplier links, or does anyone know where i could find some good deals? Here's a question, what wood is best for bending? Can I use mahogany, because I don't want that bright of tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 You can use TONS of different woods. The OLF "official luthier's forum" has a BUNCH of sponsors who deal almost exclusively in acoustics wood: ie: sides for bending up the wazoo. And like Rich said... since you want shallow sides, I'm sure if you go "what single sides without matches do you have lying around?" they'll jump on that and give you a sweet deal. Cause they can't really sell a SINGLE side, and that's pretty much what you want, and then to cut in half. HOWEVER, I WOULD recommend cutting it in half and then bending it... I just forsee cracking when the bandsaw sawing down's pressure is put on the already bent pieces... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 so to find a supplier for the wood, would i go to the project guitar homepage and just use their supplier links, or does anyone know where i could find some good deals? Here's a question, what wood is best for bending? Can I use mahogany, because I don't want that bright of tone. Mahogany is cheap and would work. East Indian Rosewood bends like butter(easier than Mahog). I wouldn't worry about tone too much from the sides. The rim is more of a structural element coupling top and back. Just be sure to get enough heat to the wood and you will be fine bending most anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhanson Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 HOWEVER, I WOULD recommend cutting it in half and then bending it... I just forsee cracking when the bandsaw sawing down's pressure is put on the already bent pieces... Thanks for the heads up, but the book that i have, building electric guitars by martin koch (from stew-mac i believe), shows him going as far as cutting the sides out on a table saw. He also suggested cutting the sides on the band saw. Is he insane, or would cutting the sides on either of these saws be pretty easily done without cracking the hard work put into bending sides? Thank you everyone for all of the suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 You could probably get away with using a bandsaw, but it IS a painful way to go(at least after sides are bent). It is a mute point if you plan on a single cut or if the sides are different. If they are identical then I would cut them, stack them and use a side bending machine(very easy to make). It will give you nice consistent results bending them together that way. If you do wood binding you can add them to the stack and bend everything in one shot. Peace,Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteBuchan Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Back to something someone said earlier, people who make radio controlled aeroplanes make the wings from balsa frames and cover these with tissue paper. They then brush on this stuff called 'dope' and as it dries, it stretches the paper pretty tight. I'm pretty sure you could make your own from watered down PVA glue, but I'm not sure how much a fabric would tighten since it is woven. It would have to be stretched beforehand and use the 'dope' to make it rigid. Might be worth doing a google search for some model supplies.... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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