Scott Burrow Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Hello my name is Scott Burrow, I'm new to this building guitar thing and to this forum(which is awesome by the way)I have been doing some searching on this forum without my answer so I thought I would just ask to see if you might be able to help me. my problem that I am having is that I am getting blead through, I'm not sure if i'm not waiting long enough between applications or what, do you guys have any idea what I can do to fix this, thanks in advance. here are some pictures illustrating the problem http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z255/sc...ow/DSC_2210.jpg http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z255/sc...ow/DSC_2209.jpg http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z255/sc...ow/DSC_2208.jpg http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z255/sc...ow/DSC_2212.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Did you apply anything (some sort of filler perhaps) or removing anything(some of the previous finish perhaps) on the body in those locations before applying paint? Also, is it definitely bleeding through, or is the paint simply not adhering to that area. I guess a better question would be, is there a detectable difference in texture between the "bleed through" spots and the blue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Burrow Posted May 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 We'll you know this is like the 12th time that I have sanded it down to refinish it, I did sand it down every time, my process was. 1. Put Sanding Sealer on. 2. more sanding sealer with white Pigment to act as a primer ( I probably shouldn't have done this maybe) 3. one layer of blue Aniline Dye from behlen Sea blue I think it's called and added two drops of white pigment to make the color lighter 4. added two more layers to try to hide the blead through, and thats where I'm at. Can I just put a couple clear coates and let it dry a couple days and lay color again. or should I sand it down again put no color in the sanding sealer and then just do the blue over again? I have done this so many times that I'm getting semi frustrated, you should have seen the color before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 The issue is not in the sanding sealer alone. It's simply a compatibility issue. I think this is not bleed through, but rather the finish trying to pool up on the surface. Am I to understand that you sprayed straight analine dye/white pigment onto the body with nothing to suspend it in? That dye and pigment(assuming they're compatible) should really have been mixed into a clear coat that's meant to be used with the sealer you used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Burrow Posted May 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 I'm sorry Yes I did put it in a clear, as far as the dyes and pigments, this is what I used. http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z255/sc...ow/DSC_2216.jpg so would creating some kind of barrier work, then I could just put down some more layers of blue to cover up the splotches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Honestly, I'd say your safest bet would be to sand this current finish off and start from scratch. Buy your sealer and clear from the same dealer and assure that they're compatible. Analyne dyes should mix just find, but do some googling regarding that white pigment as i'm not familiar with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Burrow Posted May 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 I had a feeling that you were going to say that, the sanding sealer and clear was from the same company. Oh well, I guess thirteen times won't hurt, thegarehanman thanks for your help I deeply appreciate it, I live in Peoria az, and theres not a lot of builders that I can ask these type of questions to. when I go to wood workers source in Phx and ask for advise, they usually just give me blank stares when it comes to finishing, as you can tell I like to experiment, I guess that's the only way I can think of to get better at it, thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 (edited) Well, let me say something else, then. If the finish is as hard as it should be and bonded to the wood well(ie, doesn't easily flake off), then you may be able to leave it on. Next time try tinting the sealer the same color as the base coat. The closer the two are, the harder it will be to notice imperfections in the base coat. Edited May 9, 2007 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Burrow Posted May 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Great Idea, I will try that, so are you saying to try to bring it back to white? Tha might work cool. I will let you know what I find out. I can't wait to get this one done so I can get started on the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 What I'm saying is start hand sanding it. If it sands well and stays adhered to the body just fine, you might be able to leave it. However, starting from a clean slate would make this less likely to occur again. I fear we're skirting around the issue at hand though. There's got to be a reason that the finish is doing what it's doing. I notice that there are no bridge mounting stud holes or screw holes, did you use filler there? Because I've seen polyester body filler bleed through a finish and look similar to that(now that I think of it) but less pronounced. If I were you, I would not spray anything else until you determined a logical reason why you experienced this problem. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Burrow Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 (edited) Well after Striping it down I saw my problem it was the Bondo that I used to fill holes, I went to Home depot and saw this I thought that should work, not really understanding that all i really had was hardner, not the actual bondo itself, the only reason why I knew that I must of not had the right stuff is because I went back on a diffrent time and got the bondo with hardner, I got the idea from some Ebook I bought from www.Paintyourguitar.com, should I not use Bondo? anyway here is the picture and proof that it was the hardner. I guess the hardner never hardend since It wasn't really bonding with anything. I get confused when they talk about Fillers and washes, whats the diffrence? can I use a Bondo or is there a more acceptable wood filler out there, that I'm not familiar with, sorry for all the questions, it's just that I am finally getting answers thanks. here is the bondo I tried to use originally, which was actually only hardner(Idiot). http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/4924470...bd9106ae4_b.jpg here is the bondo I bought after I had already put color on, I figured I would use it next time, unless I shouldn't http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/4924470...51904c31e_b.jpg Edited May 10, 2007 by westhemann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Make a test piece of wood with some cured bondo on it and see what happens when you spray. The bondo should be ok on the guitar; it'll be less likely to crack than typical wood filler. I knew something like this was the issue. Why didn't you mention it from the beginning when I asked if you put anything on under the paint? The thing with bondo is that if you don't get the mix ratio right(normally that means not enough hardener), it will never fully harden and you'll get the same effects you're seeing here. If the bondo cures completely and is as hard as it can be, then you shouldn't have a problem. By the way, if all you do is paint your own guitars, you're never going to use all of that bondo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Burrow Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Sorry, I Should have remembered this, you were spot on, thinking that it was the filler. well the body has been sanded back down to wood, so the right schedule should be the following correct? as far as the Bondo, they didn't have a smaller can unfortunately, maybe I'll paint my MG (just kidding). Any books that you recommend for me? 1. sand 2. Bondo any small holes 3. spray sanding sealer 4. spray color 5. spray clear 6. wait 7. buff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 That looks fine, just do a few test runs with bondo first to get a feel for the right ratio. If i doesn't fully cure, this will happen again to a lesser extent. Can't recommend any books though as I learned about finishing by reading up whatever I could find on line and through trial and error. Oh, and while bondo says it's dry in half an hour, give it about a day to fully cure before sanding. Good luck peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 That looks fine, just do a few test runs with bondo first to get a feel for the right ratio. If i doesn't fully cure, this will happen again to a lesser extent. Can't recommend any books though as I learned about finishing by reading up whatever I could find on line and through trial and error. Oh, and while bondo says it's dry in half an hour, give it about a day to fully cure before sanding. Good luck peace, russ Difference of opinion here. In my experience (and from watching and talking to panel beaters for years), Bondo should be sanded before it completely hardens. It's designed to be worked to its final shape while it's still relatively soft. Fully cured it's hard as a rock. Follow the directions on the can and you're fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 (edited) I will counter your difference of opinion with another difference of opinion! Bondo should not be sanded before fully curing, it will just gum up sandpaper. However, if you have a tough time with putting the bondo down so that it's almost perfectly in its final form when applied, then use a surform(you know, the over priced cheese graters at the hardware store) to remove the excess. I've put enough bondo down to know better than to use sandpaper on it too early. Edited May 10, 2007 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 I will counter your difference of opinion with another difference of opinion! Bondo should not be sanded before fully curing, it will just gum up sandpaper. However, if you have a tough time with putting the bondo down so that it's almost perfectly in its final form when applied, then use a surform(you know, the over priced cheese graters at the hardware store) to remove the excess. I've put enough bondo down to know better than to use sandpaper on it too early. I will revise my difference of opinion to concur and align with your difference of opinion. What I intended to say was that the Bondo should be shaped (such as with a surform) before fully cured. However, my revision and subsequent concurrence and alignment does not include the last statement regarding following the manufacturer's instructions. Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 I fixed the massive number of pics to comply with the rules...I am on 54 mbps wifi right now and it took almost a full minute for the page to stop scrolling and loading so I could read it. One pic per post,link to the rest please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Burrow Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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