Is One Type Of Dye Better Than Another?

[DIYguitarguy]

To be more specific, is an anilaline powder dye mixed with alcohol or lacquer better than an MEK based dye concentrate mixed with laquer under nitro topcoats? And why?

I visited LMI where they sell both types and it would be nice to hear your experiences and opinions before I make a choice. I have used the Trans-Tint brand in the past with excellent results, but the dyes LMI has to offer are less expensive. Maybe I should stay away from the LMI stuff and stick with what I know works. What do you think?

[prs man]

I used the Trans-Tint brand in the past with no trouble.I also used the powder dye and that work well also.

the best thing I would say is always test it on scrap first.

[eljib]

I waited weeks to get my hands on some Trans-Tint blue, but then got impatient and bought some Trans-Fast powder instead. I don't know why I didn't do it sooner, because I just finished dying, and it looks every bit as rich as the liquid dye. I mean, it's all made from the same powder in the first place, right.

[pmarlin]

You have a Woodcraft in Sacramento, they carry Trans Tint.

[DIYguitarguy]

Thanks for the input. I've decided to give the LMI dye MEK concentrate a shot. It costs 1/3 of what the TransTint sells for, so I figured it is worth a try. After reading more about it, it is supposedly more color-fast than the aniline powder types. Who knows about that? I suppose time will tell. I'll let you know how it looks in a couple of weeks.

Edited May 19, 2007 by DIYguitarguy

[fryovanni]

Thanks for the input. I've decided to give the LMI dye MEK concentrate a shot. It costs 1/3 of what the TransTint sells for, so I figured it is worth a try. After reading more about it, it is supposedly more color-fast than the aniline powder types. Who knows about that? I suppose time will tell. I'll let you know how it looks in a couple of weeks.

I have transtint and LMI Mek. Both work great. I probably have a slight preference to the LMI Mek.

[DIYguitarguy]

Thanks for the input. I've decided to give the LMI dye MEK concentrate a shot. It costs 1/3 of what the TransTint sells for, so I figured it is worth a try. After reading more about it, it is supposedly more color-fast than the aniline powder types. Who knows about that? I suppose time will tell. I'll let you know how it looks in a couple of weeks.

My first exeriment is complete and here is the result:

This sample shows a mixture of 1/2 oz of dye to 1 pint of solvent on the left side. The right side of the image was not sprayed. The color I hope to end up with is Gibson SG Red. I think this is close, but I will add more red dye and spray another sample before I do it for real.

[ihocky2]

Part of the key to getting the Gibson Cherry used on the SG is to dye to grain filler as well. I don't have the recipe here right now, but I know they dyed the grain filler. I can't remember if they jsut cleared over that or is they sprayed a tinted coat as well.

[DIYguitarguy]

Part of the key to getting the Gibson Cherry used on the SG is to dye to grain filler as well. I don't have the recipe here right now, but I know they dyed the grain filler. I can't remember if they jsut cleared over that or is they sprayed a tinted coat as well.

Thanks to input from PG members punkrockerluke, johnsilver and other info collected from this forum, here is the finishing schedule I’m using. Hopefully this will get close to the Gibson (Heritage) red as used on some SG’s:

Sand wood to 220 grit

Apply coat of vinyl sealer

Fill mahogany with walnut grain filler, oil based

Remove excess filler (per instructions)

Set aside to thoroughly dry for 1 week

Lightly sand with 320 no load paper

Apply 2nd coat of grain filler, repeat above process, then lightly sand with 320

Spay 2 spit coats (low volume, highly thinned mist) lacquer about an hour apart

After 3 hour dry time, sand very lightly with 320 grit

Dry another hour, then spray coat of cherry toned lacquer

Dry for an hour, apply second coat of cherry toner

Repeat process until desired color is achieved

Spray one coat of clear lacquer to protect toner

Dry overnight

Apply 8 -10 more coats of lacquer, allow to dry 3 hours between coats

Allow to dry for at least a month, wet sand and buff

This may be right, wrong, or whatever. I’m confident that it will be close enough to satisfy my expectations. Your mileage may vary based on your equipment, your finishing environment, your experience and your skill level.

[-CB-]

To be more specific, is an anilaline powder dye mixed with alcohol or lacquer better than an MEK based dye concentrate mixed with laquer under nitro topcoats? And why?

Define "better". They're all different. I've used alcohol based, mek based, and proprietary based dyes... you have to try them out, see what works well on scrap or similar wood to the wood that needs dyeing. The last lester had a back and sides and neck from an metallic/alcohol leather dye. Matches the Gibson "walnut" perfectly. It is what works, so I use it.

[DIYguitarguy]

To be more specific, is an anilaline powder dye mixed with alcohol or lacquer better than an MEK based dye concentrate mixed with laquer under nitro topcoats? And why?

Define "better". They're all different. I've used alcohol based, mek based, and proprietary based dyes... you have to try them out, see what works well on scrap or similar wood to the wood that needs dyeing. The last lester had a back and sides and neck from an metallic/alcohol leather dye. Matches the Gibson "walnut" perfectly. It is what works, so I use it.

For purposes of this discussion as it relates to my original question, you may replace "better" with "how do the 2 types (analine powder & MEK) compare".

Prior to purchasing the MEK based dye and doing the experiment as posted previously, I had no experience using analine or MEK based dyes. I have used the TransTint dyes, as well as many types of oil base stains, shellacs, polys, varnishes, paints, etc and I have a good idea of what to expect from each. I'm not trying to create an argument for which finish is "better" than another because all finish types have uses when one will be favored over another. Finish preferences are also very subjective and open to personal interpretations. When I asked people for their opinions of which was "better", I was specifically asking for a comparison between analine and MEK in efforts to decide which to try for my current project.

Please comment on your terms "lester" amd Gibson walnut (my project is mahogany), as I'm not sure what that means. So, I don't know how to respond.

[-CB-]

No argument intended... just pointing out that things are highly variable, you need to test them, and what I like, you may not.

Lester=Les Paul

Gibson Walnut is a medium intensity neutral toned brown that Gibson has used for a long time. You see it on older archtop backs, flattop backs, ES series from the 70's, and currently in the "faded" brown on several current models.

[DIYguitarguy]

No argument intended... just pointing out that things are highly variable, you need to test them, and what I like, you may not.

Lester=Les Paul

Gibson Walnut is a medium intensity neutral toned brown that Gibson has used for a long time. You see it on older archtop backs, flattop backs, ES series from the 70's, and currently in the "faded" brown on several current models.

It's all good. we're all here to learn, right? I know I have.