Jon Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 try this, with no strings on the guitar, tap on the body of the guitar... what happens? nothing. because the pickup picks nothing up from organic materials. MAGIC! Great build! I'm looking forward to seeing how the finish will work out on this build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Okay, just a peek into the can of worms instead of opening it again (it's open elsewhere I believe) but the strings are stretched across an uneven organic thing which will serve to interfere with the wobbly metal stuff going on via it's strange wooden response, surely? The whole balsa vs. concrete guitar is an extreme example of how the body interacts with the strings...perhaps not HUGELY but there is an interaction nonetheless. Okay, enough of that can. On with the show! Direct mount means no pickup rings. ROCK! but that is strings, not pickups. it is definately true that woods can amplify certain frequencies in guitars, but thats still just the strings, not how the pickup is picking up said strings. try this, with no strings on the guitar, tap on the body of the guitar... what happens? nothing. because the pickup picks nothing up from organic materials. Indeed, but if the wood transfers vibrations to the pickups, those vibrations will superimpose upon those of the string that are 'detected' by the pickup, and alter the sound. On a more relevant note- I'm loving these guitars! Especially the carved top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Okay, just a peek into the can of worms instead of opening it again (it's open elsewhere I believe) but the strings are stretched across an uneven organic thing which will serve to interfere with the wobbly metal stuff going on via it's strange wooden response, surely? The whole balsa vs. concrete guitar is an extreme example of how the body interacts with the strings...perhaps not HUGELY but there is an interaction nonetheless. Okay, enough of that can. On with the show! Direct mount means no pickup rings. ROCK! but that is strings, not pickups. it is definately true that woods can amplify certain frequencies in guitars, but thats still just the strings, not how the pickup is picking up said strings. try this, with no strings on the guitar, tap on the body of the guitar... what happens? nothing. because the pickup picks nothing up from organic materials. Indeed, but if the wood transfers vibrations to the pickups, those vibrations will superimpose upon those of the string that are 'detected' by the pickup, and alter the sound. On a more relevant note- I'm loving these guitars! Especially the carved top. unless the pickup is microphonic, this is just plain false, and misinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) furthermore, if the direct mount myth were true, then it would also be true, or possibly even moreso apparent, with metal pickup rings. direct mount generally mounts with screws that don't even thread into the pickup backing plate, and you might have springs, but the contact area is so slight, it wouldn't make a difference. with a metal pickup ring, you have a huge contact area, held in by 4 screws, and the screws that secure the pickup actually thread into the pickup backing plate, giving far greater surface area than if you were direct mounting. yet you don't hear anyone starting myths about how metal pickup rings make it sound better... logically, neither make much sense, though if one were to make more sense, itd be the metal rings. this isn't about opinion, its about the science behind how pickups work. pickups are wax potted, using vacuum's, to make sure the wax gets in the windings, so that the windings won't move, so they won't pickup unwanted noise, ie won't be microphonic. they are specifically engineered to only pick up electromagnetic interference from your strings. Edited June 10, 2007 by ElysianGuitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntinDoug Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Come on Man...Let it go! You pop in with nothing but negative things to say: "round off the points or it will kill your leg", "direct mounting is only for looks...nothing else", & "furthermore...blaaa..blaaa.bla". This isnt a contest to see who is right. You build your way, and I guess the rest of us will build "wrong". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Come on Man...Let it go! You pop in with nothing but negative things to say: "round off the points or it will kill your leg", "direct mounting is only for looks...nothing else", & "furthermore...blaaa..blaaa.bla". This isnt a contest to see who is right. You build your way, and I guess the rest of us will build "wrong". the rounding off the points thing was merely constructive. if you think that was negative, you need to learn reading comprehension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Whoa there..... *closes the can again* Can we stop butting balls here? If this goes any further, I might have to start up on the Eddie Van vs. Dave Lee Roth discussion just so I can operate on this level :-D Go forth and rout, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Lots of text Indeed, but if the wood transfers vibrations to the pickups, those vibrations will superimpose upon those of the string that are 'detected' by the pickup, and alter the sound. On a more relevant note- I'm loving these guitars! Especially the carved top. unless the pickup is microphonic, this is just plain false, and misinformation. It may well be a negligible effect (or it may not- I dunno how significant it is to be honest), but I've just studied 2 months of waves and oscillations on my physics degree (And no I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything. Actually, FWIW superposition is something I think I learnt a couple of years ago anyway…) and I know enough to say with fair certainty that what I said definitely isn't false. -------------------------------------- Brief attempt at explanation if you want to read it: Its the relative motion of string and pickup that matters; -Imagine the strings and the guitar body are both vibrating -Imagine that at one point in the strings oscillation, the string is moving relative to the pickup -Imagine also that at the same moment, the body is also moving due to the vibrations the string transfers into it. -Some of these vibrations in the body will transfer to the pickup. -Pickup will 'see' the string's motion as different to how it would see it if the pickup were completely stationary -So the signal generated in the pickup will be different to if the pickup was stationary and only the string was moving- and therefore so will the sound reproduced by the amp. -------------------------------------- And of course the string moves a lot more than the pickup does- im sure the vibrations in the pickup are small by comparison. And also vibrations will transfer to the pickup on any guitar with any pickup mounting- I guess the idea behind direct coupling is that the vibrations will transfer better. The springs and plastic would dampen them a little I guess. TBH I too would be skeptical about how much of a difference it makes overall. I doubt somehow that my ears would be sensitive enough to hear any difference. And I can't believe I bothered to type all that. I really don't care *that* much about direct coupling… Ah well. I'm going to bed. *Re-patches the hole he couldn't resist making in the can because he can't help being an overly pedantic ass* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 furthermore, if the direct mount myth were true, then it would also be true, or possibly even moreso apparent, with metal pickup rings. direct mount generally mounts with screws that don't even thread into the pickup backing plate, and you might have springs, but the contact area is so slight, it wouldn't make a difference. with a metal pickup ring, you have a huge contact area, held in by 4 screws, and the screws that secure the pickup actually thread into the pickup backing plate, giving far greater surface area than if you were direct mounting. yet you don't hear anyone starting myths about how metal pickup rings make it sound better... logically, neither make much sense, though if one were to make more sense, itd be the metal rings. this isn't about opinion, its about the science behind how pickups work. pickups are wax potted, using vacuum's, to make sure the wax gets in the windings, so that the windings won't move, so they won't pickup unwanted noise, ie won't be microphonic. they are specifically engineered to only pick up electromagnetic interference from your strings. I'll happilly join you in the 'effect is probably negligable' camp - but I think the main thing that you are overlooking is that that the pickups indeed dont detect the vibrations of the body-(as you rightly say)- But the vibrations of the body DO change the way in which the pickups detect the strings. Anyway Direct coupling or whatever- who cares? this guitar is looking great! Maybe this is a sign that you need to bury this dead horse with more pics, HuntinDoug (*patches hole with epoxy since 1st repair failed* -sorry) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_ado Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 ok ill put my thoughts in when i finished my bass i didnt bother screwing in the pickups for about a month because they sat in there so tight then the other day i screwed them in properly and there was a differance call it what you like but i think the better contact with the body has inhanced the sound a fair bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 My main point was that you don't need a pickup ring :-D Ah well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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