First Ever Project

[sam_two]

i started a thread befor on this but now its turned into a actual project and i could do with some more advice on where to go.

this is the first time i've ever done anything like this so i'm completely on my own.

anyways so from my practise body that i bought from the car boot. i have got it sanded down and stripped of all the remaining paint.

see picture.

so anyways i'm kindof unsure on where to go next? do i work with the neck and fret board or go for the body?

i am still thinking of mainly concentrating on the body, the neck is horrible. i was thinking of trying to remove the neck to then just concentrate on the body and getting a good spray job done?

ideas? thanks

[Jon]

Do you own a straight-edge? If so, measure over the frets to see if they're all leveled with each other. If they aren't, it's time to do some fret leveling!

At this point, you should just try and get the guitar consistently level - remove those dips, dings, and dents out of the wood the best you can and sand up to a higher grit. Say around 220 and see if everything is how you'd like it. If things are great, sand up to 400 and then test finish away! I do not recommend removing the neck from a set-neck or neck-thru guitar like yours is. It will cause more issues that you will regret as a beginner.

[sam_two]

Do you own a straight-edge? If so, measure over the frets to see if they're all leveled with each other. If they aren't, it's time to do some fret leveling!

At this point, you should just try and get the guitar consistently level - remove those dips, dings, and dents out of the wood the best you can and sand up to a higher grit. Say around 220 and see if everything is how you'd like it. If things are great, sand up to 400 and then test finish away! I do not recommend removing the neck from a set-neck or neck-thru guitar like yours is. It will cause more issues that you will regret as a beginner.

right i just finished sanding at 120. i have some finishing paper which should be a higher grit. i will finish that today. there are a fair few dings and whatnot which i am not going to get out, what is done so far is smooth and i am happy with.

the guitar is fairly old and IMO the fret board is in pretty bad shape. do i need to varnish it or get something on it? in which case do i take the frets out to do that?

would it be best to do the body first rather than the neck? i was thinking of just leaving the neck with a wood finish.

another question is in the end i dont really care how bad the guitar is, i have a heap of junk parts and really want to assemble it together to form some piece of crap. now since i have no idea what brand guitar it is, so i'm at a loss as to what kind of bridge set up to use. any ideas?

should i fill in the holes already there and then drill to put say one of these in?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Baddass-Style-Chrome...1QQcmdZViewItem

[WAK Guitars]

I guess if you want it to work you should assemble the guitar and see if you can make it work before you start finishing it. Because if you have to do routing or drilling etc after you finish, you could damage the finish. It's simple advice but just thought I'd mention it.

[sam_two]

I guess if you want it to work you should assemble the guitar and see if you can make it work before you start finishing it. Because if you have to do routing or drilling etc after you finish, you could damage the finish. It's simple advice but just thought I'd mention it.

yes that is a good point. i'm a complete beginner at this. i have no desire to make a "pristine" guitar or something of great craftsmanship etc. i just want to make a guitar and see this project through to the end. and then use everything i have learned as experience on my next project and so forth.

i was given a box, mainly comprising of strat parts inc pickups, switches etc, i think i could piece together almost everything electronically. i have tuners. but i am at a loss of what would be the easyest bridge to install?

any sugestions on parts?

i think this one is going to be pretty void of electronic style and i'm fine with that!

sorry to be constantly asking for advice. i dont know anyone who does anything like this, so this is basically my only resource.

[thegarehanman]

In helping you determine what sort of bridge is best for this application, why not get a few measurements for us? How high is the end of the neck sitting above the body? Putting a straight edge on the neck, extending over the body, can you tell if the neck is parallel to the body or sightly tilted back with respect to the body? If it's tilted back, can you tell how many degrees, approximately(could be anywhere from 1 to around 5)? What's the distance from the fretboard side of the nut slot to the 12th fret? what's the distance from the fretboard side of the nut slot to the bridge side of the bridge pickup route?

The more of those questions you answer, the better idea we can give you for what type of bridge you should aim for. As for ease of installation, a hard tail or TOM is going to take the win. The question is which one; that's what the dimensions will help us figure out.

[sam_two]

In helping you determine what sort of bridge is best for this application, why not get a few measurements for us? How high is the end of the neck sitting above the body? Putting a straight edge on the neck, extending over the body, can you tell if the neck is parallel to the body or sightly tilted back with respect to the body? If it's tilted back, can you tell how many degrees, approximately(could be anywhere from 1 to around 5)? What's the distance from the fretboard side of the nut slot to the 12th fret? what's the distance from the fretboard side of the nut slot to the bridge side of the bridge pickup route?

The more of those questions you answer, the better idea we can give you for what type of bridge you should aim for. As for ease of installation, a hard tail or TOM is going to take the win. The question is which one; that's what the dimensions will help us figure out.

thanks, i'll do my best to get the most accurate readings.

sorry to be asking all these questions, its a hobby i'm genuinly interested in but have little experience and no friends on mentors available to guide me.

bear with me on the measurments. i'm not really geared up for this. so i'm sourcing everything as i need it. i realise this isnt the way to go but its a first time. i'm learning as i go.

measurments in metric or imperial? and as for the measurement from the nut slot, i need to put a new nut in. will any from ebay do?

i'll try and find a online guide or something to do this. i think its pretty crucial i get that done.

thanks for the help (and the patience)

Edited June 17, 2007 by sam_two

[thegarehanman]

I prefer imperial, but if it's metric, that'll work just as well. Yes, the nut is at the top of the fretboard. It's normally around 1/8" thick; make certain to measure from the side closer to the fretboard(as opposed to the side closer to the headstock) so your measurements aren't off by 1/8."

[sam_two]

I prefer imperial, but if it's metric, that'll work just as well. Yes, the nut is at the top of the fretboard. It's normally around 1/8" thick; make certain to measure from the side closer to the fretboard(as opposed to the side closer to the headstock) so your measurements aren't off by 1/8."

right i'll try and get those measurements done tomorrow.

[sam_two]

right i have all those measurments.

sorry i ended up working in metric, it just seemed easyer. and some of the rules i had didnt have inches.

from the fret board to the body of the guitar is - 12mm

from the top of the fret to the body of the guitar is - 12.5mm

from the freboard side of the nutslot to the 12th fret is - 299mm

from the fretboard side of the nutslot to the bridge side (far end route) is 574 mm

when i was at school i remember being taught tigonometry and thinking i have no use for this in the outside world. i take that back!

i measured 200mm from the base of the neck into the body and then from a straight edge rule from the top of the frets measured a distance of 18mm

so from 200mm and taking into consideration the measurments i took from the top of the fret that makes a difference of 5.5mm

i dont have a protractor and my trigonometry is pretty dire. sorry to burden that with you. i'll try and work it out in the meantime.

[thegarehanman]

I'm not exactly clear on those last measurements. Are you saying that the neck is angled relative to the body such that rise of 5.5mm over a run of 200mm? That would be reasonable as it would mean about a 1.5 degree neck angle.

[sam_two]

I'm not exactly clear on those last measurements. Are you saying that the neck is angled relative to the body such that rise of 5.5mm over a run of 200mm? That would be reasonable as it would mean about a 1.5 degree neck angle.

yes i believe that is what i ment. sorry i've never really had to deal with explaining stuff like this.

the 1.5 degree sounds about right, i had my father help me with the measurements, we were trying to work it out but his trigonometry hadnt been used for some years and didnt have a decent calculator but said it would be only a matter of 1 degree or something.

[sam_two]

i've been working on my project and learning lots. not exactly done a great job but whatever,i'm learning.

its been rather frustrating as i make measurements and what not, check them and then follow through with my plans only to find out i was wrong.

which was basically the whole point of the project. no point in me buying a great piece of wood or something only to make all of these mistakes.

the bridge was hard to get in the right spot. i had the measurments on how far down it should go but due to the angle i found getting it in the exact spot was trickey and after, drilling, filling drilling and filling i got it in, and even then it is a mm or so out. i really havnt got any ideas on how i can get it better other than chance. i think it was a mixture of bad measurements and finding it hard to get the drill very precise, even with my father helping. but ah well. at a later date i may take it to a local guy who does that and get him to drill it. we'll see how much it costs.

then i got the pick guard material cut out which (suprise suprise) was wrong. this really got me down over it but i salvaged it for the sake of putting it together. i will more likely than not get another piece and get it cut out again, shape it a little differently etc but in the meantime it will do.

i shaped the top nut out of bone which i bought off ebay. its quite nice and wasnt too hard. i think i got it about spot on.

and today i soldered everything up to see if it worked and it did, with a little bit of hum, but i havent earthed it properly. since i dont have a trem unit or acess to the bridge anymore i was going to just solder the earth cable to a screw and screw that in the cavity where the earth wire origionally went to the trem system, i presume that will be alright?

anyways here is a picture of it so far.

just strung it up with one string to see if it worked

and i found out what it was origionally!

here is one on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960s-Guyatone...VQQcmdZViewItem

Edited July 20, 2007 by sam_two

[fryovanni]

Russ is aiming you in the right direction. Make the most of this project by learning all you can about how the neck, nut, frets, bridge, neck angle, and truss rod work.

As for a nut. One of the forum members here (woodenspoke). Offers bone nut material on Ebay at a very reasonable price.

The first thin I would do is get a good straight edge(for the sake of this task a 36" steel rule*generally pretty straight) should be fine. Confirm the neck is set straight(or extreamly close, frets may be a little out of level as you suspect). If the neck is not straight you should make adjustments to the truss to make it so. This is a tutorial on basic truss rod adjustment-Truss tut. You would do well to go to this main tutorial page and read through the tutorials relating to the work you are doing-Tutorial Main Page. After you have the neck set straight. You can use your straight edge to determine the height at the proper bridge location. To determine the correct bridge locatio(there can be slight differences in actual distance to accomodate intonation correction*Low E needs a little extra length generally and high E is usually very close) you can use what we know about scale lengths. The 12th fret is one full octive. One full octave is half the distance of the scale length(distance from the string nut to the bridge). For what it is worth the distance from 12 to the next full octave would be half the remaining distance and so forth(example- 24" scale, Nut to bridge= 24"(intonation adj. not withstanding),nut to 12=12", 12 to bridge=12", 12th to 24th=6"). So you can place your straight edge on the neck(right down the center), figure out the distance to the 12th fret, double that distance is the scale length and that will tell you where your bridge position is. Mark this location, and with the straight ruler setting flat on the neck(right down the middle) measure the distance from the straight edge to the body. This will give you a close idea as to the lowest adjustment you will need from your bridge to allow you to be capable of setting your action.

When properly set your string nut slots will be ever so slightly higher than your first fret(maybe .005", very very close). You will adjust your bridge saddles to raise your action(this varies with personal taste) which will be some where between 1/64"(extra low) and 5/64"(a little high) depending. In order to raise the action at the 12th fret 1 unit you will have to raise the bridge saddle approx. 2 units. This is something you should be thinking about when you look at your bridges adjustment range.

If you will be doing a refret(which will be GREAT experience). You will have an oportunity to get a great set up. Read up on fretting(there are several good books and web pages that offer detailed information). Keep in mind the perfect fret job is one that requires no fret leveling at all(just evenly set the frets on a perfectly prepaired fretboard). Spend the time to get a perfectly surfaced fretboard, clean slots, and evenly seated fret wire. The magic trick to fret leveling is to not have to do it at all(keep that in mind).

Peace,Rich

[Hector]

do something about that 10th fret marker too.

it'a a guitar, not a banjo or a mandolin.

[sam_two]

Russ is aiming you in the right direction. Make the most of this project by learning all you can about how the neck, nut, frets, bridge, neck angle, and truss rod work.

As for a nut. One of the forum members here (woodenspoke). Offers bone nut material on Ebay at a very reasonable price.

The first thin I would do is get a good straight edge(for the sake of this task a 36" steel rule*generally pretty straight) should be fine. Confirm the neck is set straight(or extreamly close, frets may be a little out of level as you suspect). If the neck is not straight you should make adjustments to the truss to make it so. This is a tutorial on basic truss rod adjustment-Truss tut. You would do well to go to this main tutorial page and read through the tutorials relating to the work you are doing-Tutorial Main Page. After you have the neck set straight. You can use your straight edge to determine the height at the proper bridge location. To determine the correct bridge locatio(there can be slight differences in actual distance to accomodate intonation correction*Low E needs a little extra length generally and high E is usually very close) you can use what we know about scale lengths. The 12th fret is one full octive. One full octave is half the distance of the scale length(distance from the string nut to the bridge). For what it is worth the distance from 12 to the next full octave would be half the remaining distance and so forth(example- 24" scale, Nut to bridge= 24"(intonation adj. not withstanding),nut to 12=12", 12 to bridge=12", 12th to 24th=6"). So you can place your straight edge on the neck(right down the center), figure out the distance to the 12th fret, double that distance is the scale length and that will tell you where your bridge position is. Mark this location, and with the straight ruler setting flat on the neck(right down the middle) measure the distance from the straight edge to the body. This will give you a close idea as to the lowest adjustment you will need from your bridge to allow you to be capable of setting your action.

When properly set your string nut slots will be ever so slightly higher than your first fret(maybe .005", very very close). You will adjust your bridge saddles to raise your action(this varies with personal taste) which will be some where between 1/64"(extra low) and 5/64"(a little high) depending. In order to raise the action at the 12th fret 1 unit you will have to raise the bridge saddle approx. 2 units. This is something you should be thinking about when you look at your bridges adjustment range.

If you will be doing a refret(which will be GREAT experience). You will have an oportunity to get a great set up. Read up on fretting(there are several good books and web pages that offer detailed information). Keep in mind the perfect fret job is one that requires no fret leveling at all(just evenly set the frets on a perfectly prepaired fretboard). Spend the time to get a perfectly surfaced fretboard, clean slots, and evenly seated fret wire. The magic trick to fret leveling is to not have to do it at all(keep that in mind).

Peace,Rich

cheers dude. but most of that is already done. after all themistakes i hgave made with the bridge and pick guard i dont feel confident enough to start a re fret. i will do at some point though. i'm beginning to think i'm not precision enough to be able to do things like this. i have no experience in any type of shop work so its all rather hard for me. but i'm enjoying it.

i wanted to get this guitar up and running, if anything to prove not only to myself but to whoever doubted it in the first place. they will more than likely be right that it will be no good, but then again i'm hardly the best guitarist in the world

once it is up and running and i've played it abit and got bored of it i will then take it apart again and do like you said, - re frets, etc etc.

i'm going to spend some more time with the electronics and earth it properly and then maybe put a few more strings on it and have a blast around

[brian d]

from the freboard side of the nutslot to the 12th fret is - 299mm

from the fretboard side of the nutslot to the bridge side (far end route) is 574 mm

Sorry I'm joining this discussion late.....

It looks like you're going to have some problems intonating the guitar. From the measurements, the scale length is 598mm (two times 299mm from nut slot to 12th), so the bridge saddles need to be a bit more than that to allow for compensation. If I understand correctly, your bridge is at 574 mm. Maybe the bridge you're using has the saddles an inch past the far end route, in which case the intonation should be OK.

The problem may be with the measuement...299mm is an unusual 1/2 scale length. A standard strat would be about 324mm from nut to 12th.

Brian.