Help Taming Some Frets

[DrummerDude]

Hi guys, I bought a neck for my current project because I didn't want to build one myself.

I was scared of the fret work I had to do on a from-scratch neck, so I decided to use a pre-made neck.

The neck I bought second hand from a fellow forumite is from a BC Rich Bronze series guitar and is in awesome shape - it is like new, no nicks, no dents, zero fret wear, etc. and I am VERY pleased with its overall condition.

But.

It has several frets that have popped out of their sockets - some at the edge, others at the very center of the fretboard.

As I said, fret work is what scares me and what I was trying to avoid by buying this neck, and now, when it turned out that the neck I bought has fret problems, it appears to be Absolutely Useless for me, unless there is some way to fix the problem.

I know that I can pour some Super Glue in the gaps and then clamp the frets but that would f*ck up the fretboard wood and make it un-stainable where the Super Glue has touched it (I intend to stain the board jet black at some point in future).

Even if I mask the wood, there is a huge risk that the Super Glue would soak in via "capiliar action" or whatever it is called in English.

I just tried to hammer the bad frets in - it didn't help either.

Once again - I don't want to do a full re-fret because this would make the purchase of a pre-made and pre-fretted neck Totally Pointless.

Heck, I bought this neck for the sole purpose of avoiding any kind of fretwork!!!

Any tips or advices on this situation?

What would your advice be?

Should I get rid of it on eBay?

It would be pretty ******* hard for me to get another one in that shape and at that price, though.

This is the only neck that complied to my requirements that I managed to find in a 4 month period of searching.

I am pretty much loving the neck if we don't count the fret disaster and it, apparently, is one hell of a big problem.

Help, please.

Thanks!

[ray]

well you were just meant to learn about frets

its petty common problem

the seller should have warned you

frets can be glued and clamped back into their slots

there is plenty info on that subject here or at mimf

its no biggie but you will need to mill and dress the frets

you would have had to do that with a premade neck anyhow

pay top dollar for warmoth etc you still need to mill and dress frets to get it to play well

Edited August 15, 2007 by ray

[DrummerDude]

Thanks.

I will do the job the the Super Glue way but how to prevent the SG from soaking itself into the fretboard wood, so to be able to stain the wood jet black afterwards?

Or should I simply stain it black first and do the gluing of the frets afterwards?

Also what super glue would be the best for this job?

I am guessing those runny waterish kinds that are almost as thin as acetone?

My experience shows that Super Glues and especially the waterish ones harden pretty slow, though (about one day for reaching full strenght), so it would take me 24 days to glue all the 24 frets in place.

[soapbarstrat]

You've sort of indicated in the past you're East European ?

If so,

EDIT : Damn link don't work

Edited August 16, 2007 by soapbarstrat

[DrummerDude]

^ The link does not work for me.

[soapbarstrat]

Listed as "Dan Erlewine's Fretting Video Series Guitar repair DVD " on ebay, located in Estonia.

Item number: 160147614716

Edited August 16, 2007 by soapbarstrat

[DrummerDude]

That's a nice DVD, thanks for the tip.

I will buy it when I get that spare $90.

Meanwhile any tips and advices on how to do the Super Glue repair without messing up the neck even more by spilling SG all over it are welcome.

[DrummerDude]

I am posting photos of the frets - just about any fret has more or less popped out of the fretboard.

Some in the middle, others at the edge, as seen on the pics below.

The fret work on this neck is DISASTROUS!

[soapbarstrat]

How do ya know that perfectly decent looking rosewood hasn't already had something wiped on it that's going to make your jet black dye attempt turn out less than stellar ?

[DrummerDude]

How do ya know that perfectly decent looking rosewood hasn't already had something wiped on it that's going to make your jet black dye attempt turn out less than stellar ?

I don't, but I guess I will try it anyway.

I will use acetone just like some guy adviced me in this thread about another neck of mine: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...c=29986&hl=

[marksound]

Yeah, just remember that acetone is a solvent for superglue.

[DrummerDude]

Yes.

I guess I will have to stain the board first and only after that try to fix the frets with Super Glue.

Actually, I am not sure if Rosewood would stain well even if it is clean - it's a rather oily wood and has plenty of oils inside of its cells.

Haven't tried to stain my other neck yet but I guess it would be wise to try the stain on it first.

Damn, what a mess...

[Setch]

Yes.

I guess I will have to stain the board first and only after that try to fix the frets with Super Glue.

Actually, I am not sure if Rosewood would stain well even if it is clean - it's a rather oily wood and has plenty of oils inside of its cells.

Haven't tried to stain my other neck yet but I guess it would be wise to try the stain on it first.

Damn, what a mess...

If you want a black board, get ebony. Staining rosewood will be a poor substitute, and will complicate your repair work. That RW will get plenty dark anyway once you've clocked up some playing time.

[DrummerDude]

My real problem are the popped frets.

Staining the board was just an extra that I may simply skip.

I hammered in a few of the frets that were popped in the middle. It worked pretty OK - they are lower and closer to the fretboard now.

Don't know how long they are going to hold in there, though. Maybe i should have added some Super Glue after all?

Now it is time for gluing and clamping the edge-popped frets.

[j. pierce]

I wick a little bit of water-thin superglue under my fret ends when I do the overhand on a bound fretboard. Whether or not this helps, I don't know, but it makes me feel better. (I have a feeling that epoxy would probably adhere better to the metal than superglue, but I don't really know.)

To help keep any excess superglue drips from mucking up the look of my fretboard, I spread a paste wax (like wax for autos) on the fretboard, stopping just shy of the edge of the frets so the edge between the wood and metal is still open enough for the capillary action to wick in the thin superglue. And superglue that gets where it shouldn't is easily scraped up with the wax afterwards. I use a small X-Acto blade that's almost like a chisel to scrape it up. Make sure you round the corners of the chisel so you don't make marks in the board during this process. Any residual wax can be cleaned up with a mild solvent. Do this after you spray any finish though, because any stray wax can muck up with some finishes.

That's just my take, I'm not an expert by any means, but it's suited me well on my last few fret jobs.

[DrummerDude]

I wick a little bit of water-thin superglue under my fret ends when I do the overhand on a bound fretboard. Whether or not this helps, I don't know, but it makes me feel better. (I have a feeling that epoxy would probably adhere better to the metal than superglue, but I don't really know.)

To help keep any excess superglue drips from mucking up the look of my fretboard, I spread a paste wax (like wax for autos) on the fretboard, stopping just shy of the edge of the frets so the edge between the wood and metal is still open enough for the capillary action to wick in the thin superglue. And superglue that gets where it shouldn't is easily scraped up with the wax afterwards. I use a small X-Acto blade that's almost like a chisel to scrape it up. Make sure you round the corners of the chisel so you don't make marks in the board during this process. Any residual wax can be cleaned up with a mild solvent. Do this after you spray any finish though, because any stray wax can muck up with some finishes.

That's just my take, I'm not an expert by any means, but it's suited me well on my last few fret jobs.

Awesome, thanks.

I thought of using some oil instead of wax as an insulation and protection against super glue spills but I was afraid that it would run under the fret and screw up the adhesion of the Super Glue.

By the way, there is a fantastic web site online that has tons of fretting tips and tutorials by some Very experienced gentleman and he explains that the Super Glue does not actually "glue"anything but rather acts like a reinforcement making the fret more stable. Or at least this is what I concluded from his article with my bad Englsih.

That gentleman also showed how to glue the popped fret ends FAST using accelerator liquid that makes Super Glue harden in seconds (something that I have not available).

I am trying to find another tutorial/article that showed a pretty easy to make fret clamp - something that I will be needing because I don't have Super Glue accelerator liquid and I will have to keep my popped up frets clampd in place for 24 hours each.

Any tips on how to make a simple fret clamp are welcmoe. Meanwhile I will be working on inventing my own too.

Thanks!

Edited August 17, 2007 by DrummerDude

[Mattia]

Cheap alternative to accelerator: sprinkle some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) onto wherever you want accelerated, blow off all of it (minimal amount stays), apply glue. Works like a charm. Moisture also kicks the reaction, but you don't really want to be adding that.

[DrummerDude]

Cheap alternative to accelerator: sprinkle some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) onto wherever you want accelerated, blow off all of it (minimal amount stays), apply glue. Works like a charm. Moisture also kicks the reaction, but you don't really want to be adding that.

So I just have to try to get some baking soda in the gap between the fret and the fretboard and then pour the Super Glue?

Hmm...

[Mattia]

Just sprinkle some in, it'll get there anyway. And you want to drip the superglue in. TINY, TINY amount of superglue.

[DrummerDude]

If I somehow manage to get the soda bicarbonate underneath the fret, how fast would it make the Super Glue?

Would this method allow me to completely avoid clamping?

For example: this luthier just keeps the fret pushed for a few seconds after applying accelerator to the Super Glue and that's it.

Seems that the accelerator makes things go really, really fast.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Te...calooseend.html

Will I be able to do the same using baking soda as an accelerator?

Thanks.

[DrummerDude]

Actually, do you buy the Super Glue accelerator separately or is there a Super Glue "pack" of some sort that contains both the glue and the accelerator?

Any brands to look for?

Thanks

[Mickguard]

Actually, do you buy the Super Glue accelerator separately or is there a Super Glue "pack" of some sort that contains both the glue and the accelerator?

Any brands to look for?

Thanks

You know, if you'd just do a little research for yourself...took me 10 seconds with google to find this page. You could have read this and been finished with the job a week ago. Yeah, yeah, I know, you're lazy, you want the rest of us to do your work for you, etc.

But it seems to me that you can achieve better results by slightly wetting the fret as you're clamping it down---water is another accelerator. Might be a little slower than baking soda, since that will immediately neutralize the acid inhibitor. But getting baking soda under the fret might prevent it from clamping down completely to the wood--that stuff sets up very hard very fast. That's why the CA/baking soda mix works so well for filling nut slots. It becomes an extremely hard solid mass. Also gives off extremely toxic fumes, so ventilation is necessary.

In any event, you should be performing your own tests before taking it to the neck.

[Mattia]

Put baking soda in, then BLOW ALL OF IT BACK OUT. A tiny amount will remain, invisible, enough to kick the reaction.

Seriously dude, try this on scrap, see how it works, figure it out yourself.

[Mickguard]

Anyway, I just had a thought. No one seems to have asked these simple questions: Did you already mount the neck and string it up? Did you at least take a straightedge to it and try to determine if the frets themselves are level?

[DrummerDude]

Anyway, I just had a thought. No one seems to have asked these simple questions: Did you already mount the neck and string it up? Did you at least take a straightedge to it and try to determine if the frets themselves are level?

No, I haven't mount and strung up the neck yet because the spruce/beech body I made cracked.

I will be making a new body, this time out of ash or oak - whatever I managae to salvage.

Yes, I did use a straight edge and the frets are disastrous - they really are too f*cked up to describe how bad they are.

Once I glue them all down to the fretboard, I will do some fret leveling and crowning (just the very thing that I tried to avoid by purchasing a pre-made neck).

PS:

Funny, I spoke to a well respected luthier who lives in another city and he told me that the Super Glue method of clamping down popped up frets would "destroy the neck". Not sure what he meant, though. Gotta do some investigation on this.