Bridge Wood

[jaycee]

Most of the bridges I have come across are either rosewood or ebony, what is the reason for this?

I thought it may be the density or hardness of the wood, but is there any light coloured wood that could be used?

[thegarehanman]

Well, I'm no acoustic pro, so this is just what I'm thinking, but I think the choice comes from several factors. The bridge has to be able to take the wear from wound strings and the forces from string tension without getting grooves worn into it too quickly or being torn apart under the forces. Also, the weight of the bridge does color the tone of an instrument to a pretty decent extent. However, I think that if you used acrylicized maple or something similar, you'd have a light colored wood with both the weight and durability of something along the lines of ebony or rosewood. Check out gallery hardwoods; they have a pretty good selection of acrylacized woods and I think they can even accommodate custom orders.

peace,

russ

Edited August 19, 2007 by thegarehanman

[GuitarEng]

I would think that rosewoods and ebony are used for their stability and strength. It probably doesn't hurt to have some weight to the bridge either. Rosewoods and ebony are pretty stiff...if they were more flexible, this would probably steal some energy from the strings instead of transferring the energy right to the soundboard.

I think there would be some obvious problems with using a softer wood for a part like this...over time & under load, the part would deform due to the string tension & load across the saddle.

[fryovanni]

The bridge has to keep the saddle in place without cracking(this is a problem that is seen often). The bridge also has to be tuff, because a typical pinned bridge has strings wedged by pins to hold them in place. There is no reason to make the bridge heavier than it needs to be, but woods that meet the needs are generally fairly heavy. Hard Maple is also used for bridges, and it works fine. Cracking at tne front of the saddle area aside, a bridge needs little additional strength to resist deformation. Actually you can look at the soundboard it is setting on to visualize the required strength. It is also a goal to try to make as smooth a transition as possible in terms of strength to the soundboard. If you have a rigid element against a supple element(the soundboard) you focus stress on that point. You can't avoid it completely, but it is best to control and limit it as much as is possible. Weight as Russ mentioned will have a notable effect on performance. Typical guitar bridges range from around 15grams*Ultra Light to 40grams*hefty. Ebony will most likely place you around 35 grams +/-5, EIR will more likely place you at 25 grams +/-5. There is nothing wrong with trying different woods, just be sure they have tuffness to handle the demands.

Peace,Rich

[Mattia]

What Rich said; strength is one thing, although frankly, Walnut's a more stable choice than Ebony in terms of not wanting to crack. Most woods are strong enough, if you're using a pinned bridge (bridge plate is taking all the heat), but it's also about resonance and weight. The bridge is your largest and heaviest piece of bracing (usually heavier than all the rest of it combined). Ebony's a thuddy, high damping wood (Doesn't resonate that nicely), and heavy, ergo - rosewood. Stiff, strong, resonant, relatively light.

[alwz]

The bridge has to keep the saddle in place without cracking(this is a problem that is seen often). The bridge also has to be tuff, because a typical pinned bridge has strings wedged by pins to hold them in place. There is no reason to make the bridge heavier than it needs to be, but woods that meet the needs are generally fairly heavy. Hard Maple is also used for bridges, and it works fine. Cracking at tne front of the saddle area aside, a bridge needs little additional strength to resist deformation. Actually you can look at the soundboard it is setting on to visualize the required strength. It is also a goal to try to make as smooth a transition as possible in terms of strength to the soundboard. If you have a rigid element against a supple element(the soundboard) you focus stress on that point. You can't avoid it completely, but it is best to control and limit it as much as is possible. Weight as Russ mentioned will have a notable effect on performance. Typical guitar bridges range from around 15grams*Ultra Light to 40grams*hefty. Ebony will most likely place you around 35 grams +/-5, EIR will more likely place you at 25 grams +/-5. There is nothing wrong with trying different woods, just be sure they have tuffness to handle the demands.

Peace,Rich

Rich,

I'd like to know your opinion on rosewood vs ebony bridge. Since rosewood is lighter and still tough, isn't it more suitable than ebony? But ebony seems to be standard on hand built guitars. I've been thinking of building my first kit guitar (OM size). What would you recommend? Thanks.

Alwz

[jaycee]

Thanks for the replies guys, I had lost this thread, and when I saw the subject in the list I thought "thats interesting " and it was me who started it.

How about the plate what woods would you use for this

Edited September 8, 2008 by jaycee

[fryovanni]

The bridge has to keep the saddle in place without cracking(this is a problem that is seen often). The bridge also has to be tuff, because a typical pinned bridge has strings wedged by pins to hold them in place. There is no reason to make the bridge heavier than it needs to be, but woods that meet the needs are generally fairly heavy. Hard Maple is also used for bridges, and it works fine. Cracking at tne front of the saddle area aside, a bridge needs little additional strength to resist deformation. Actually you can look at the soundboard it is setting on to visualize the required strength. It is also a goal to try to make as smooth a transition as possible in terms of strength to the soundboard. If you have a rigid element against a supple element(the soundboard) you focus stress on that point. You can't avoid it completely, but it is best to control and limit it as much as is possible. Weight as Russ mentioned will have a notable effect on performance. Typical guitar bridges range from around 15grams*Ultra Light to 40grams*hefty. Ebony will most likely place you around 35 grams +/-5, EIR will more likely place you at 25 grams +/-5. There is nothing wrong with trying different woods, just be sure they have tuffness to handle the demands.

Peace,Rich

Rich,

I'd like to know your opinion on rosewood vs ebony bridge. Since rosewood is lighter and still tough, isn't it more suitable than ebony? But ebony seems to be standard on hand built guitars. I've been thinking of building my first kit guitar (OM size). What would you recommend? Thanks.

Alwz

I like rosewoods a lot. I am not dead set against different ebonies at all(and Ebony when well dried is very stable). Both of these woods have a range of species that vary in properties. Ebonies can range from Nigerian/Gabon to new Guinea(weight, hardness, resonance vary), generally on the heavy side though(which is perfect depending on what you want). Rosewoods range from ultra light EIR to African Blackwood(as heavy as ebonies). I have also run across other species that certainly meet the requirements and range in weight(pau ferro, goncolo alves, purple heart, shedua and so forth). There are a LOT of options that are certainly viable. Some of the woods that I have stashed for my personal use(note; I like to have a range of weights and color options) would include. EIR(Dalbergia), Pau ferro, Hard Maple, Goncolo Alves, Kingwood(Dalbergia), African Blackwood(Dalbergia), Cocobolo(Dalbergia), Honduran Rosewood(Dalbergia), Madagascar Ebony, Mac. Ebony, Burmese Rosewood(Dalbergia), Snakewood, Pink Ivory and a few others that are not coming to mind(they say the mind is the first to go ). I want the wood to be tuff, machine well, and seem resonant to me. If it meets those requirements, I am looking for a range of weight in my finished bridges that varies from about 15 grams(ULTRA light) to 40 grams at the most. In my mind I only think in terms of light(15-25grams), medium light(more than 25 less than 35grams), heavy(35-40gram). Weight is what I like to try to control in a bridge, and what I prefer depends on the application(I look at Soundboard/bracing/bridge as a balancing act, wanting them to all be kinda in check with each other). No heavy bridge with a lightly braced thin soundboard, or featherwieght bridge on a very stiff beefy soundboard. The worst top I ever put together had an extra stiff bracing configuration with a thin soundboard(somehow it made sense in my mind at the time, to save lots of weight by thinning the board and using really tall thin braces, there is a point where you run into trouble doing that).

It is good to hear your interested in the bridge. I think many overlook the bridge as a fixed variable or "off the rack part". Even after you install a bridge it is something that should be dialed in to your top. As Mattia always says, it is the biggest brace on your soundboard(and we pay a lot of attension to braces).

Rich

[alwz]

Thanks for the kind replies.

Alwz

[Daniel Sorbera]

How does koa compare? I've actually never held a piece in my hands so I don't know what it's like in terms of weight and stiffness, but I was considering doing a flame koa back/sides and I think it would look cool if the headstock over and bridge had matching koa.

[Mattia]

How does koa compare? I've actually never held a piece in my hands so I don't know what it's like in terms of weight and stiffness, but I was considering doing a flame koa back/sides and I think it would look cool if the headstock over and bridge had matching koa.

I've never worked with it, but I've handled a few sets, and I've got several sets of its cousin wood, Black Acacia. It's mahogany-ish in terms of weight, fairly similar in terms of tap.

[fryovanni]

How does koa compare? I've actually never held a piece in my hands so I don't know what it's like in terms of weight and stiffness, but I was considering doing a flame koa back/sides and I think it would look cool if the headstock over and bridge had matching koa.

Koa is much as Mattia noted, similar to Mahogany. It is a bit denser, and you can really tell the difference when cutting Koa vs Mahogany. It is a bit softer than I would prefer for a bridge. I might consider alternatives such as maybe Goncalo Alves(which has can have a very Koa esc. look to it, can be very curly(at least I have a bunch that is very curly) and has great strength and density for fretboards or bridges. It seems to have a very nice rosewood like tap.

Rich

[Dudz]

From what I understand any stable, strong, hard wood should work. If you realy want something light colored then canary would proably work and provide a more traditional tone than maple as it is warmer toned but still different from usual. Canary would also doesn't require a finish unlike maple wood. I've never been anywhere near koa but hear it is amazing in tone and I've seen how amazing it looks.

[fryovanni]

From what I understand any stable, strong, hard wood should work. If you realy want something light colored then canary would proably work and provide a more traditional tone than maple as it is warmer toned but still different from usual. Canary would also doesn't require a finish unlike maple wood. I've never been anywhere near koa but hear it is amazing in tone and I've seen how amazing it looks.

Canary wood really has a cool look when it exhibits streaks of dark red against the yellowish color of the wood. I think your right, it seems to be a very tuff wood.

Rich

[davee5]

The flame koa I used for my semi-hollow's top was WAY harder than most of the rosewood I've handled and cut. It was a beast on tools, but also not nearly as hard as ebony.

I've never built an acoustic (collecting the wood though), so I have no expertise to add in application. I just wanted to note that some koa flitches can be very hard. Close to an old-growth, heavy walnut I suppose.

One guy's opinion.

- Dave

[fryovanni]

The flame koa I used for my semi-hollow's top was WAY harder than most of the rosewood I've handled and cut. It was a beast on tools, but also not nearly as hard as ebony.

I've never built an acoustic (collecting the wood though), so I have no expertise to add in application. I just wanted to note that some koa flitches can be very hard. Close to an old-growth, heavy walnut I suppose.

One guy's opinion.

- Dave

Koa is VERY tuff on tools. It is a deceptive wood, the texture says Mahogany, the weight is more Walnut(or slightly higher generally). The impression I get is this should cut like butter, but man it is pretty tuff stuff when the blade hits the fibers.

Rich

[GGW]

Bridges are put on later, over the finish, so I assumed the qualities were a hard wood that did not need to be finished. This is usually the same for fret boards but of course there is finished maple as well in electric guitars. If this is the criteria, then you need an oily tropical wood and ebony and rosewood are the common ones used.

I'm working on my first acoustic build and wanted to have lighter colors so I used Pau Ferro as pictured on the LMI site here:

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....ado+Fingerboard

This the fingerboard picture but I got a bridge blank to match. I asked for a piece that was light in color and it is quite blondish. It seems OK for now but I can't vouch for it in the long term. I'll get some pics up when I finish.

[fryovanni]

Bridges are put on later, over the finish, so I assumed the qualities were a hard wood that did not need to be finished. This is usually the same for fret boards but of course there is finished maple as well in electric guitars. If this is the criteria, then you need an oily tropical wood and ebony and rosewood are the common ones used.

I'm working on my first acoustic build and wanted to have lighter colors so I used Pau Ferro as pictured on the LMI site here:

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....ado+Fingerboard

This the fingerboard picture but I got a bridge blank to match. I asked for a piece that was light in color and it is quite blondish. It seems OK for now but I can't vouch for it in the long term. I'll get some pics up when I finish.

If your attaching to your applied finish, I am assuming you are very confident in your finish bond. Most of the time you remove the finish under your bridge and make a wood to wood joint(There are a few though who really have their finishes down and attach to the finish). The requirements are somewhat the same as a fretboard, plus consideration for split resistence and weight.

I really like Pau Ferro. Nice choice

Rich

[Mattia]

What rich said: traditionally the bridge is applied after the finishing process, but to bare wood that's been cleared of all finish. With modern finishes like polyester, you can get away with gluing the bridge down to the finish (I know Jean Larrivee does this, as has Rick Turner in the past) with thick CA glue. However, I really don't trust the finish bond enough; hot hide or titebond, bare wood to bare wood for me.