Neck Woods, Weight Question.

[Blackdog]

Hi there,

I have a question for the experienced bunch of builders around here:

Will an Indian Rosewood neck be significantly heavier than a similar mahogany neck ??

I'm considering an IRW neck for a build down the road and I'm wondering if I'll have to tweak the weight of the body to make it balance properly...

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Mattia]

Yes, it will. Neck's the same size and construction as a mahogany neck, and the wood's density means it could be anywhere from a little heavier to twice as heavy. Consider some lighter tuners (open backed and/or mini, plastic or wood buttons instead of metal, forget locking) to offset some of the weight.

Thing is, the body design also affects things significantly. Take a PRS, for instance; they'd balance quite well even if you put the strap button further down the horn, so they can get away with slightly heavier necks. You need to be a little more careful with singlecuts and the like.

If you wait another 6-7 months or so, the next electric I build for myself will have a cocobolo neck, so you can come around to compare weights a little. Probably be a singlecut with a black limba body, still uncertain about whether to pop a maple top on it or not...

Edited August 22, 2007 by Mattia

[Woodenspoke]

Yes, it will. Neck's the same size and construction as a mahogany neck, and the wood's density means it could be anywhere from a little heavier to twice as heavy. Consider some lighter tuners (open backed and/or mini, plastic or wood buttons instead of metal, forget locking) to offset some of the weight.

Thing is, the body design also affects things significantly. Take a PRS, for instance; they'd balance quite well even if you put the strap button further down the horn, so they can get away with slightly heavier necks. You need to be a little more careful with singlecuts and the like.

If you wait another 6-7 months or so, the next electric I build for myself will have a cocobolo neck, so you can come around to compare weights a little. Probably be a singlecut with a black limba body, still uncertain about whether to pop a maple top on it or not...

IF you have a guitar with a similar body style to what you are doing add some weight to the headstock and see what happens. Add enough to make a difference in the body to neck balance and figure out how much wiggle room you have on your project. Try some sand in a plastic baggie.

[Sock Puppet]

You might be interested in this quote, stolen from here:

http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~dace/...VWoods.FAQ.html

There are roughly a dozen species of true rose woods in the world. (Yes, they smell like roses when cut with a saw.) A partial list would include Tulip wood, King wood, Cocobolo, East Indian Rose wood, and Brazilian Rose wood. With the exception of the latter, these are oily to the point of being dead in the tone department. So what is the point in coveting these materials when there are sonic superiors available? The problem is that in the public mind, rose wood is cool, so it has long been over harvested. Because of this Brazilian Rose wood has been banned from importation to the United States for over twenty five years. (Linc Hoke)

HTH

S.

[Mattia]

Sorry, but that's a complete load of bollocks, as anyone who's handled any amount of rosewood blanks could tell you.

Are the oily? Yes. Certainly. Does that make them tonally dead? Nothing could be further from the truth. There's a reason marimba/xylophone keys and woodwind instruments are very often made from rosewoods; they resonate like crazy, long, ringing, glassy tap tone, fast attack, slow decay, plenty of sustain. Out of that list, Indian rosewood is perhaps the 'deadest' sounding, the lightest (weight-wise), but not the oiliest. Ebony (black, not macassar, less oily, denser) is probably the deadest wood I use in guitarmaking, tonally, and the rosewoods are among the most musical and resonant.

Can other woods be very nice, very resonant? Sure. Mahogany's got a great ring to it, maple can do as well. But rosewood, overall, has it in spades.

[thegarehanman]

You might be interested in this quote, stolen from here:

http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~dace/...VWoods.FAQ.html

There are roughly a dozen species of true rose woods in the world. (Yes, they smell like roses when cut with a saw.) A partial list would include Tulip wood, King wood, Cocobolo, East Indian Rose wood, and Brazilian Rose wood. With the exception of the latter, these are oily to the point of being dead in the tone department. So what is the point in coveting these materials when there are sonic superiors available? The problem is that in the public mind, rose wood is cool, so it has long been over harvested. Because of this Brazilian Rose wood has been banned from importation to the United States for over twenty five years. (Linc Hoke)

HTH

S.

Whoa whoa whoa! That's so far from the truth (...disregarding the fact that these are all only our opinionts ). I've used cocobolo for necks and while oily, tonally dead is the absolute last term I'd use to describe it. It really lends to a rich, clear tone. I'm sure if Myka or Fryovanni chime in, they'll have similar sentiments as I know Myka has used EIRW for necks and I think Rich has as well. Have you ever even made a guitar with a rosewood neck? And if you didn't like it, what makes you think the neck was the culprit of the dissatisfying tone?

peace,

russ

EDIT: Mattia beat me to it

Edited August 23, 2007 by thegarehanman

[marksound]

I have a hard time believing that people would keep making acoustic guitars out of tonally dead wood.

[jmrentis]

Come on Russ, you know Myka and Rich only use rosewood because they want to be cool!

I've been thinking of doing a kingwood neck or laminated kingwood neck lately, some local places have been getting some very nice pieces. Anyone tried that specific rosewood for a neck or neck lams? Just curious on its traits, as if there is any issues I can just as easily find another rosewood for the job. I know its gravity is up there, read something like 1.2. I like the look of some of the pieces I have come across, just want to make sure it isn't prone to any problems.

Anyhow, that was a funny posts, I can see how most luthiers would only use rosewoods to be cool, thats makes a lot of sense, right?? I think people had said that monkey pod was a dead sounding wood and when actually put to use it ended up being great and won a blind listening contest for acoustics. At least now I know how to be cool around here, by using rosewood on my builds, I guess that'll get me in the "in" crowd, hahaha. J

Edited August 24, 2007 by jmrentis

[Sock Puppet]

Well hell, I thought I'd found a nice site about woods there.

Suppose I saw it written down amongst useful info and was gullible enough to believe it...

As an aside, gullible isn't in any printed english dictionary!

S.

[Blackdog]

The only experience I can speak of is not as a builder (I'm only slowly becoming one, hopefully), but as a player (of which I'm not that much either...): I once owned a MIJ Fender Rosewood Tele.

This was not only Heavy (with capital H), even despite the fact of the fully hollowed body, but also pretty death tonally. Basically it resonated as much as a brick....

However I see rosewood used as a tonewood for top level acoustics, and that should mean something. PRS McCartys with IRW neck have good sound reports. I guess I'll have to try, for the sound, for the looks and the aforementioned "cool factor"

Although I thought that you had to use zebrano to be "really" cool.....

Edited August 24, 2007 by Blackdog

[Mattia]

Some of the rosewood teles weren't bad, but I'll repeat the bit about indian rosewood being one of the slightly 'deader' rosewoods. Still plenty 'lively' in the greater scheme of things, though. The mass probably also messes with resonance and the like, and sometimes, well, you get a hunk of wood that's just not all that fantastic. Natural material and all that.

David Myka's made a wonderful all-madagascan rosewood solidbody electric (one of my favourite guitars of his) that apparently sounds awesome. Sadly I don't live close enough to have snuck by the shop to make sure...