Neck Pocket Issue?

[nerosrevenge]

I am working on geting the body ready for my current build (which is also my first) and I have run into a snag (at least I think I have).

Based on what I can forsee, when I cut the neck pocket, a portion of the neck and fretboard will sit below the surface of the body. You can see this in the original drawing:

I don't recall seeing this on other guitars, and I can't get near something similar to this design in the near future to check. So here are my questions:

1. Is this normal? I would assume that this is an issue with any build where the neck is at an angle to the body.

2. What is the best solution? I figure I could cut the neck pocket shallow but then the end of the fretboard will sit above the body. I could angle the top from the bridge forward, but then I would have to change the thickness of the neck heel because based on the angle I fear that if I angle the top and cut the neck pocket deeper, I wouldn't have enough material left in the body for a solid joint.

The neck heel is about 1 1/2" thick as it is, is that too thick?

Thank you for any assistance you can provide.

STV.

[CrazyManAndy]

I believe guitars with such an angle have the area around the neck cut to the same angle.

Example: http://www.setchellguitars.co.uk/ant/blog/?page_id=10

CMA

Edited September 17, 2007 by CrazyManAndy

[nerosrevenge]

Well I think that I have decided to angle the top. After reviewing my drawings, I figure that is the easiest solution. I will then reshape the neck heel so that it is at zero angle to the neck itself, and rely on the angle of the body when I route the pocket.

It's interesting to note that I had originally wanted to angle the heel as I though that it was the easiest route, turns out that I was wrong!

I also picked up the router bits for shaping the body and the neck pocket today so I hope to get the body done tonight. Still need a piece of wood for the top...

STV.

[j. pierce]

I believe this is covered (or at least, touched on) in the Hiscock book in the chapter where he builds the 8 string bass.

Really, anything will work, it simply depends on what *you* decide, and what is more important, functionality, appearance, ease of construction - weight these against each other and make a decision. But drawing out a full size plan (As you've done) is the best way to approach this, as you see these things now instead of realizing them as you build.

Some guitars simply raise the neck up until the fretboard is flush and/or proud of the top surface (think jazz boxes for the furthest end of this spectrum, where often the strings are quite high above the surface of the guitar body. If you feel there's not enough wood in the body of the guitar at the neck joint, simply use a thicker piece of wood for the tenon, or laminate on a heel piece ( a contrasting piece of wood and maybe some thin veneers for a pretty heel cap and can be nice looking) I don't like this approach at all times, because I tend to bash the strings in if'n they're too high. This method also requires raising your bridge height some.

Angling the top as mentioned is another option, and of course this is usually sort of "built in" when doing a carved top. This allows a more uniform string-over body height. If the guitar is a flat top, this can look wierd in my opinion, but it's also fairly easy to work a PRS-type treble bout "scoop" bevel (or even SG type bevels, depending on the build into the design in a way that it alleviates the problem with fretboard being below the body top, which I think looks better than the top just changing angles randomly at the towards the neck.

On my current builds, I actually recessed my fretboards into the body somewhat - it seemed to work better with my carve.

But yeah, with drawings like that, you can work out any solution you like. Just work with your bridge height and keep all things in consideration and you'll be fine. Are you working towards a specific neck angle as a target? You may be able to lessen the neck angle, which would raise that part of the fretboard above the body enough, but again, only your measurements (and your bridge) can tell you this.)

Also, don't forget about pickup height! In an effort to get my fingerboard laying at the height I wanted, I ended up having to jack my pickups really low into the body to get a good tone, and it just kind of looked wierd with my neck pickup almost below the ring. ( I ended up having to sand the ring height down a fair amount.)

[CrazyManAndy]

I believe this is covered (or at least, touched on) in the Hiscock book in the chapter where he builds the 8 string bass.

Really, anything will work, it simply depends on what *you* decide, and what is more important, functionality, appearance, ease of construction - weight these against each other and make a decision. But drawing out a full size plan (As you've done) is the best way to approach this, as you see these things now instead of realizing them as you build.

Some guitars simply raise the neck up until the fretboard is flush and/or proud of the top surface (think jazz boxes for the furthest end of this spectrum, where often the strings are quite high above the surface of the guitar body. If you feel there's not enough wood in the body of the guitar at the neck joint, simply use a thicker piece of wood for the tenon, or laminate on a heel piece ( a contrasting piece of wood and maybe some thin veneers for a pretty heel cap and can be nice looking) I don't like this approach at all times, because I tend to bash the strings in if'n they're too high. This method also requires raising your bridge height some.

Angling the top as mentioned is another option, and of course this is usually sort of "built in" when doing a carved top. This allows a more uniform string-over body height. If the guitar is a flat top, this can look wierd in my opinion, but it's also fairly easy to work a PRS-type treble bout "scoop" bevel (or even SG type bevels, depending on the build into the design in a way that it alleviates the problem with fretboard being below the body top, which I think looks better than the top just changing angles randomly at the towards the neck.

On my current builds, I actually recessed my fretboards into the body somewhat - it seemed to work better with my carve.

But yeah, with drawings like that, you can work out any solution you like. Just work with your bridge height and keep all things in consideration and you'll be fine. Are you working towards a specific neck angle as a target? You may be able to lessen the neck angle, which would raise that part of the fretboard above the body enough, but again, only your measurements (and your bridge) can tell you this.)

Also, don't forget about pickup height! In an effort to get my fingerboard laying at the height I wanted, I ended up having to jack my pickups really low into the body to get a good tone, and it just kind of looked wierd with my neck pickup almost below the ring. ( I ended up having to sand the ring height down a fair amount.)

+1. And I would also recommend Hiscock's book, very useful. This topic is indeed covered and he discusses the different approaches to this problem.

CMA

[killemall8]

well why not just cut the neck pocket more shallow, and use a greater neck angle?

[nerosrevenge]

well why not just cut the neck pocket more shallow, and use a greater neck angle?

I believe I would have to use less of an angle no? If I increase the angle that will cause the fretboard to sit higher above the top of the guitar, if I do that in conjunction with cutting the neck pocket shallower it will compound the problem.

j.peirce - "Are you working towards a specific neck angle as a target?" No. I calculated the angle based on the bridge I am using relative to the length of the neck. The angle is 2 degrees.

I think that the easiest solution is to angle the body, trim the neck heel parallel with the neck itself and take it from there. Any other solution will require me to change the thickness of the top I plan to use, and in turn the height of the bridge relative to the neck, and in turn the neck angle required, and so on.

Since the neck is made and the body is roughly half done, this seems the best solution.

Thank you to everyone for you comments and advice.

I really should pick up that Hiscock book! Anyone selling a used copy?

STV