Fretting A Neck With A Bound Board

[Donut Man]

I'm in the process of fretting my V build, and I'm having some difficulties getting the fret ends to stay down. I've done 4 frets, and it seems that though they are all level, the ends of the fret don't sit flush with the top of the binding. I've undercut the tang so it fits over the binding, but it seems that the bits that have been undercut don't stay down. Pre-bending the frets to a radius greater than that of the board doesn't seem to help either. Any ideas?

[erikbojerik]

I'm in the process of fretting my V build, and I'm having some difficulties getting the fret ends to stay down. I've done 4 frets, and it seems that though they are all level, the ends of the fret don't sit flush with the top of the binding. I've undercut the tang so it fits over the binding, but it seems that the bits that have been undercut don't stay down. Pre-bending the frets to a radius greater than that of the board doesn't seem to help either. Any ideas?

The fret ends are a little more flexible without the tang, and it is not unusual to bend them slightly when nipping the tang off. Check it before seating the fret and bend it slightly down before seating it in.

Are you pressing or hammering? (I prefer pressing)

Did you bevel the edges of the slots before fretting? If not, the fret won't seat all the way down and it may look fine in the middle, but off on the ends.

[Donut Man]

I'm in the process of fretting my V build, and I'm having some difficulties getting the fret ends to stay down. I've done 4 frets, and it seems that though they are all level, the ends of the fret don't sit flush with the top of the binding. I've undercut the tang so it fits over the binding, but it seems that the bits that have been undercut don't stay down. Pre-bending the frets to a radius greater than that of the board doesn't seem to help either. Any ideas?

The fret ends are a little more flexible without the tang, and it is not unusual to bend them slightly when nipping the tang off. Check it before seating the fret and bend it slightly down before seating it in.

Are you pressing or hammering? (I prefer pressing)

Did you bevel the edges of the slots before fretting? If not, the fret won't seat all the way down and it may look fine in the middle, but off on the ends.

I'm hammering them, it's my first build, and buying a fret press isn't part of my budget.

I bevelled the slot for the first one I did, but I didn't notice much of a difference, so I didn't do the others. The fret slots seem deeper than the fret tang, even at the ends anyway (it's a pre slotted board). But I'll bevel the other ones and see what happens.

So basically I should bend the tang-less bits of the frets further once I've removed the tang?

[erikbojerik]

I bevelled the slot for the first one I did, but I didn't notice much of a difference, so I didn't do the others.

The reason to bevel is because the underside of the fret, where the tang meets the crown, is not a sharp right-angle. There's a little bit of curve to it, so if you don't bevel the slots, the underside of the crown won't sit flat on the fretboard surface. And it can be tough to bevel the bit right up against the inside of the binding if you don't have a small file.

So basically I should bend the tang-less bits of the frets further once I've removed the tang?

Yep, but be careful to not snap it off. Just a little.

[j. pierce]

How are you cutting the tang off? An issue I had, was that even with the tang nippers from stewmac (which my pair only seem to work half the time without mangling the wire, but that's another issue entirely) or with careful dremel-ing or cutting them off, it still left a little bit on the underside. I hold them in the fret bending pliers I have, and a few passes with the file takes that last bit of tang off. I go until the light reflects off the metal evenly across the whole underside of the fret crown. Most of them come off fairly quickly, but I'm often surprised by how much little nub is left even when it looks like I've cut it all off. This helped my fret ends seat flush quite a bit.

Another thing that trips me up sometimes is making sure my fretslots are clean. Depending on how you adhere your binding, it's very easy to accidently get some in the fret slot - feel it with a feeler gauge - sometimes the end of the fret slot has a bit of build up, and it makes the end of the fret stand proud - It's not always noticable right where the tang is, but it tends to show itself (at least in my experience) by difficulty getting the end where the tang is clipped to sit down properly.

I have one of these from Stew Mac - I often seep a little water-thin super glue under the ends of the frets on a bound board (I'm not convinced it actually helps, truly, but I do it anyways) and use it to hold the fret ends down while it dries, the stuff I use just takes a second. It's a useful tool when I'm having fretting problems to, though - if I can push the nipped ends of the fret down flat to the board with that, (even if they don't stay) it probably means the slot and such are okay, and I can try again. Most likely I'm dealing with spring back or something or I totally messed up my hammering. If after pulling the fret, I can also see any evidence that perhaps I've just compressed the wood under the leftover tang or somesuch by pressing the ends with that tool, which can lead me in other directions.

I'm not a master fretworker by any means, just my observations.

[j. pierce]

The reason to bevel is because the underside of the fret, where the tang meets the crown, is not a sharp right-angle. There's a little bit of curve to it, so if you don't bevel the slots, the underside of the crown won't sit flat on the fretboard surface. And it can be tough to bevel the bit right up against the inside of the binding if you don't have a small file.

FWIW, (If Donut Man is having a hard time getting to the edge of the slots with his file) I use a small square needle file from an X-Acto brand miniature file set, (a few dollars at a craft store) that I've cut the end off of - it no longer tapers to a point, allowing me to get right up to the edge of the binding.

[MescaBug]

Make sure the binding follows the fretboard radius, as if it wasn't even there. I had a similar problem with the first bounded fretboard I made. I scraped the binding flush, without following the radius. So the binding edge was at an angle. There was a gap between the fret ends and the binding. I used the hammer to bend them slightly over the binding. It work, but it wasn't comfortable to play.

Sorry for my bad english. Maybe it's not clear..

[doug]

It's important to be sure your slots are clean and deep enough right to the binding. I do a lot of them, and it's a foregone conclusion that glue from the binding will be in the slots. I clean and verify every slot using THIS TOOL.

Hammering presents the added headache of spring-back. You hit the fret, then it pops back up a little. This enlarges the area where the barbs should grab causing the fret not to "stay put". By pressing (my method too) even pressure is applied to the whole fret setting in place with no vibration.

I grind the underside of each fret so no tang is showing on the part over the binding. Dremel with 3/4" wheel is perfect.

Don't hammer the very ends of the fret too hard either because they will bend downward creating an uneven playing surface. You'd have to do a lot of leveling if that happens resulting in lower frets.

-Doug

[guitar2005]

I have a couple of really simple things I do

- Ensure the fretboard is properly and consistenly radiused. For example, 12"

- Ensure the slots are clean and the proper depth for the entire length of the fret slot.

- Pre-bend the frets to 14-16" radius

- Cut each fret as close as possible to its final length and cut the tang

- Place each fret in its slot so that they hold with just the fret ends in the slot

- Press the frets in firmly and smoothly with a 12" radius caul. Hammering frets in for a bound fret board takes a lot of patience and is prone to error. There's a thread somewhere in PG that explains how to make a fret press caul to under $15.00. With a couple of inserts from Stew Mac, you'd be set for about $25.00. Just something to consider.

- Go over each fret again with a 14" radius caul.

- Check that each fret is properly seated and re-press/glue/replace if needed

Not prefect, but it seems to work for me. Actually, I can do a better job at bound fretboards that 90% of luthiers in town which is kinda sad given the level of experince I have compared to them.

Edited April 18, 2008 by guitar2005

[MescaBug]

Don't hammer the very ends of the fret too hard either because they will bend downward creating an uneven playing surface. You'd have to do a lot of leveling if that happens resulting in lower frets

That's exactly what I did on my first board.. And it was a mess.