New To The Whole Deal...

[TyrsFromAbove]

Well, I've been browsing these forums quite intensely, and I can't seem to find everything I need spelled out for me, so I thought that I'd post it here instead (since everyone seems ever so helpful)

I'm starting to really get into the guitar and I want to have the satisfaction of having an instrument in my hands that I myself built. However, it seems from the information that I've gathered already that it is a fairly difficult and involved process. So I came here for tips and tricks....So, onto what I need as far as information goes:

I really like the PRS double cut carved body style, but not so much the price tag. I have the money, but with college coming up, it doesn't look feasible. I'm thinking that my parents will spring for the idea of me building my own, especially if it allows me and my dad to work on something together (time to bond...) But, I'm not sure if the carved top is something that I should attempt on my first build (though I am very technically minded and know my way around dimensions and such...) In light of the complexity of the carved top, I was thinking that I would just stick to a solid body and leave the top for another time. If anyone has any advice that may help me do otherwise, I'd appreciate hearing it.

As far as what wood to use, I'm really looking for something that has a fair mid and low range that allows for the highs to come out real smooth. I haven't done too much research, but it looks as if mahogany is the way to go. I know that there are nicer woods out there that would probably help the tone out even more, but I am trying to keep costs to a minimum...With that being said, is there a better alternative that I might be able to get for even less?

And I haven't been able to locate an actual schematic for the dimensions and such of a PRS double cut, so if anyone has actual dimensions that you'd be willing to offer up, it would be much appreciated. This would include info on how I should cut the carved top and the "tummy" bevel....

I would like to attempt to try and build the neck, but the fretting seems like a VERY daunting task, so I thought that it would best be left up to Warmoth...They are local, and it seems like they do a darn good job....So if anyone could possibly recommend dimensions of the neck joint and the pickup spacing that would allow for the "pro" neck from warmoth, I'd love to hear from you!

And as far as the wiring goes...I have a relative that's handy with that kind of stuff, but I was wondering if it's really complex. We're talking regular h-h no coil tap...I'll probably end up getting some duncans...

And to sum it up for anyone that's going to bother helping, I'm not going for any over the top paint job that would require nice wood or anything of the like, just a basic stain....

So, in short, I need:

What type of wood I should get for the body (and possibly the top)

What dimensions should the body blank be and how much should I expect to pay (lumberyard, not online dealer)

How I should space the pickups and bridge (fixed - I'm thinking tonepros)

Dimensions for the pickup cavities and control cavity and their position on the guitar

Dimensions for the neck joint to fit a warmoth "pro" neck (and if I should even use this neck type?)

Let me know if I need to elaborate on anything or if I'm all wet concerning some aspect of this project. ANY AND ALL HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!

-Ben

[Geo]

I would like to attempt to try and build the neck, but the fretting seems like a VERY daunting task, so I thought that it would best be left up to Warmoth...They are local, and it seems like they do a darn good job....

--------

1 What type of wood I should get for the body (and possibly the top)

2 What dimensions should the body blank be and how much should I expect to pay (lumberyard, not online dealer)

3 How I should space the pickups and bridge (fixed - I'm thinking tonepros)

4 Dimensions for the pickup cavities and control cavity and their position on the guitar

5 Dimensions for the neck joint to fit a warmoth "pro" neck (and if I should even use this neck type?)

If you want to build your neck, I think you should. I fretted everything I ever built (including the 3 or 4 fake guitars I threw together before building a "real" guitar). It isn't hard. You just need well-cut slots and a well-prepped fingerboard.

Most of your questions will be answered in a good book, such as Melvyn Hyscock's "Build Your Own Electric Guitar". But...

1 wood: mahogany, ash, alder, etc. are the normal ones. Maple top if you want to spend more money.

2 depends on what you're building

3 based on your scale length and neck-to-body joint

4 based on your pickups and controls (how much space they need)

5 if you're buying a neck rather than building, get the neck first, then you'll know the size of the pocket.

Basically, you need to read up on this stuff. Answering these questions in the depth that you need would take up the space of a book... and there are already good books out there. The fact that you asked those questions means you aren't ready to build a guitar but will be after you read a book. For example, are you aware that wood must be dried and stable before you can use it?

Whatever you build, buy or draw a full-scale plan. Don't cut any wood before you do!!!

Lastly... good luck, I'm sure you'll have a sweet axe when you're done.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Geo

[dpm99]

+1 on everything Geo just said...

I especially recommend Melvyn Hiscock's book. In it, he says that building a guitar is generally MORE expensive than buying a guitar - not less. However, if you just want a guitar that looks like a PRS, you'll be able to do it much cheaper than buying one, if your dad has enough tools already. That's gonna be a big thing.

Here are a couple of links you might like also:

http://guitarplansunlimited.com/ (For plans)

http://store.guitarfetish.com/ (For keeping cost down)

Hope that helps,

Dave

[fryovanni]

Your first build will not be cheaper than an off the rack PRS(FWIW). You may be able to find a good deal used, if that is what you really want(and it will have a resale value, when that is considered it is by far cheaper than a first build). Ok, I had to say that.

You need to start with a good book. Don't try to pick up bits and pieces off the web, if this is a summer project. Look for possible classes at your local colleges(build a guitar type classes). They are not cheap, but are designed to take you through the process, with access to specialty tools and materials. This would be a good option and give you a real good shot at a decent instrument at the end of the day. It will also speed up the learning curve(if you decide to continue building). If you decide to wing it, and use a warmoth neck. Talk to them about the joint and pocket requirements, as well as other neck specs.

Just my thoughts and suggestions,

Rich

[TyrsFromAbove]

Your first build will not be cheaper than an off the rack PRS(FWIW). You may be able to find a good deal used, if that is what you really want(and it will have a resale value, when that is considered it is by far cheaper than a first build). Ok, I had to say that.

You need to start with a good book. Don't try to pick up bits and pieces off the web, if this is a summer project. Look for possible classes at your local colleges(build a guitar type classes). They are not cheap, but are designed to take you through the process, with access to specialty tools and materials. This would be a good option and give you a real good shot at a decent instrument at the end of the day. It will also speed up the learning curve(if you decide to continue building). If you decide to wing it, and use a warmoth neck. Talk to them about the joint and pocket requirements, as well as other neck specs.

Just my thoughts and suggestions,

Rich

Well, an off the rack PRS costs around 3.5g's (for the one I want), so I don't see how this guitar could even come close.

And, I know used is cheaper, but I just can't stomach spending that much for something that isn't brand spanking new...

I haven't taken a look for a book, but I will, thanks for the heads up.

[Mickguard]

Well, if you want a PRS, then that's what you should get. Especially if you have the money for it.

If what you really want is a self-built instrument, then that's what you want -- and not a PRS, get it?

I understand building guitars that don't exist or are too hard to find otherwise. The telecaster shape seems to lend itself to infinite variations, for example.

But I see no real reason to build a direct copy of a guitar. Again, if you want the PRS, get that.

I definitely agree with the Hiscock book --it'll throw everything into perspective (and actually make the whole project seem more possible and less frightening, thanks Melvyn!).

As for the neck -- I've built a couple now, and that was enough for me. I prefer to play on pre-built necks, just a personal thing. So nothing wrong with that.

If you're just getting into PLAYING the guitar, I'd recommend playing a few different types of guitars first, to figure out what kind of neck you really prefer. There are big differences between the feel (and sound) of the different scale lengths. And I've found that radius is hugely important -- I only recently discovered that I actually prefer a 7.25 (aka 'vintage') radius and the Fender scale -- all this time I've been fighting to play 12" radius Gibson scale guitars...

Summing up, Building guitars is a much different activity than playing the guitars. I do both because I enjoy both. But I like playing more, so for the time being, all building projects are on hold!

[TyrsFromAbove]

I would like to attempt to try and build the neck, but the fretting seems like a VERY daunting task, so I thought that it would best be left up to Warmoth...They are local, and it seems like they do a darn good job....

--------

1 What type of wood I should get for the body (and possibly the top)

2 What dimensions should the body blank be and how much should I expect to pay (lumberyard, not online dealer)

3 How I should space the pickups and bridge (fixed - I'm thinking tonepros)

4 Dimensions for the pickup cavities and control cavity and their position on the guitar

5 Dimensions for the neck joint to fit a warmoth "pro" neck (and if I should even use this neck type?)

If you want to build your neck, I think you should. I fretted everything I ever built (including the 3 or 4 fake guitars I threw together before building a "real" guitar). It isn't hard. You just need well-cut slots and a well-prepped fingerboard.

Most of your questions will be answered in a good book, such as Melvyn Hyscock's "Build Your Own Electric Guitar". But...

1 wood: mahogany, ash, alder, etc. are the normal ones. Maple top if you want to spend more money.

2 depends on what you're building

3 based on your scale length and neck-to-body joint

4 based on your pickups and controls (how much space they need)

5 if you're buying a neck rather than building, get the neck first, then you'll know the size of the pocket.

Basically, you need to read up on this stuff. Answering these questions in the depth that you need would take up the space of a book... and there are already good books out there. The fact that you asked those questions means you aren't ready to build a guitar but will be after you read a book. For example, are you aware that wood must be dried and stable before you can use it?

Whatever you build, buy or draw a full-scale plan. Don't cut any wood before you do!!!

Lastly... good luck, I'm sure you'll have a sweet axe when you're done.

Thanks for the words of encouragement...

I don't want to come off sounding like an ignorant and know-it-all kid, but I see a guitar (or at least the one I have in mind) as a piece of wood, with some electronics and metal parts...(The music is what really matters)

So, I was hoping to get a few experienced people to point me in the right direction when it comes to dimensions for the body, etc.

So, to sort of reiterate...

I want a PRS-STYLE body, so the basic shape. Nothing too fancy. I think that I'm going to go with mahogany.

It'd be nice to have a carved top, But if this adds too much complexity, then it's not that important.

(I'm not adverse at all to sanding...And lots of it...)

When I wanted body blank dimensions, I was just asking for what dimension of board I should buy so that I'll have ample room to draw out the (PRS) design.

e.g. 18"x24"x2" ?

As far as the scale length goes, I'm stuck. (And would like to know what exactly is the nature of the interaction of the body length and the neck length)

If I get a neck from Warmoth, the body needs to conform to the 25.5" scale.

If I make my own, I'd like the body to be 25" scale (as would be the neck).

If I made my own, I need to know what size blank I should buy...

I'm thinking Mahogany with Rosewood fingerboard.

How far apart should I keep the pickups...I couldn't find a standard distance anywhere....

How far should the bridge be from the rear pup?

=======================================

The full scale plan is a must, I know. (And yes I did know that the wood needs to be dried and preferably acclimatized to your area before working with it)

I'll look into the book, but I was hoping I could get the gist of the info I need from people like you...

==========================================================

If I still sound too inexperienced, I might just look into a complete package from Warmoth, but 300 bucks for just the body is a bit spendy!!!

[dpm99]

I think you want a kit! That's actually not a bad idea at all. I would recommend this one to you:

http://www.universaljems.com/cart/ht10/ht10.htm

If you go to projectguitar.com (home page) and click on supplies, then click on the "Brian Calvert Music" banner, you can find it under "HT-10." You'd have to wait a minimum of 2-4 weeks for it though, and you'd be working with a basswood body. In the same section, there are a number of other suppliers from whom you can buy a guitar kit. You can always add custom pickups and hardware too.

Also, if you trying to chase the perfect tone, let me give you just a word of advice. You may already know this, but I throw it out there anyway. Before you worry about wood, spend your money on a great amp, great effects, and great pickups (not to mention great strings). Wood will be secondary to all those things. And most importantly, your real sound isn't in your instrument. It's in your fingers.

Good luck,

-Dave

[djhollowman]

Also, if you trying to chase the perfect tone, let me give you just a word of advice. You may already know this, but I throw it out there anyway. Before you worry about wood, spend your money on a great amp, great effects, and great pickups (not to mention great strings). Wood will be secondary to all those things. And most importantly, your real sound isn't in your instrument. It's in your fingers.

Good luck,

-Dave

+1, esp. if you're playing with any amount of gain, like metal for example!

If you ask for opinions, you will get opinions. If you ask for facts...hmmm, that's another story!

I know it's a cliche, however: if Steve Vai walked into my house and picked up any of my guitars he'd sound like Steve Vai. But if I walked into Steve's house and played Evo...I'd still just sound like me! :D

DJ

[fryovanni]

Your first build will not be cheaper than an off the rack PRS(FWIW). You may be able to find a good deal used, if that is what you really want(and it will have a resale value, when that is considered it is by far cheaper than a first build). Ok, I had to say that.

You need to start with a good book. Don't try to pick up bits and pieces off the web, if this is a summer project. Look for possible classes at your local colleges(build a guitar type classes). They are not cheap, but are designed to take you through the process, with access to specialty tools and materials. This would be a good option and give you a real good shot at a decent instrument at the end of the day. It will also speed up the learning curve(if you decide to continue building). If you decide to wing it, and use a warmoth neck. Talk to them about the joint and pocket requirements, as well as other neck specs.

Just my thoughts and suggestions,

Rich

Well, an off the rack PRS costs around 3.5g's (for the one I want), so I don't see how this guitar could even come close.

And, I know used is cheaper, but I just can't stomach spending that much for something that isn't brand spanking new...

I haven't taken a look for a book, but I will, thanks for the heads up.

Ok, your first will be equal to a PRS Custom top 10, and you will build it for the cost of materials, total buget less than $3500. Good luck with the build! and have fun.

Rich

[RAI6]

Well, an off the rack PRS costs around 3.5g's (for the one I want).

Yeah, it might cost that much (for the one you want), but keep in mind, that what you're building won't be even close to that guitar.

If you compare your end result with a PRS at the same price level (as your build ended up costing), you'll see that their guitar will be WAY better than yours.

I'm not trying to discourage you from building, but you have to realize that it won't be cheap to build a guitar, and the chances of it turning out great are very small.

Not impossible, but small...

It's been said before, and needs to be said again:

If you're building a guitar thinking you can save money, think again.

[Blackdog]

First of all welcome to this group of build-a-holics...

Mostly everything that matters has already been said by the experienced guys around here.

With only two complete builds under my belt I can say I'm still a newbie myself, but I have learnt a couple of things already that I can share with you.

1-Your first build will NOT be cheaper than the guitar of your dreams. Quite possibly not even your second build.

2-Your first build will NOT be as nice and perfect as the guitar of your dreams. Quite possibly not even your second build.

3-Wood is possibly the cheapest element of the cost structure of your build. Tools, hardware and hours are by far more expensive.

4-You can do a carved top on your first. I did and worked out reasonably well. And it's a lot of fun.

5-You can make a neck for your first. It's not that difficult and it's a lot of fun.

6-It's not really necessary to start with a flat-top, or a bolt-on or a kit if you really feel you're up to the challenge. That said, keep your design as simple as possible without sacrificing the specs you really want.

Revisit your reasons for wanting to build your guitar, What we're saying here is that your first build is likely to be inferior and more expensive that the PRS you want. But with a bit of patience and planning it will still be very playable and satifying. And with the gained experience you'll be planning your second build...

So if it is for the fun of building it yourself then, by all means, go ahead. If you just want to have that PRS Custom 10-top for less, then look into buying one second hand.

The two guitars I built are along the lines of what you want to attempt, so have a look ant the build threads in my signature and it will give you an idea of what you're looking at. And keep on reading. There are many build threads in this forum alone that will give you many interesting ideas. People do things differently, quite often there is more than one way of doing something, so there's a lot to learn just by reading.

I wish you the best of lucks and a sweet guitar at the end of the road.

[avengers63]

Before anyone else says anything about the cost of building the ax, let's really look at it.

The opening post stated he'd be working side by side with his father. That suggests the major power tools are already in place, so there's no expense there. Looking at the rest of what's needed (in no order) with what's already been stated:

1. Warmoth neck - mohogany & rosewood $213

2. Tone Pros TOM bridge & tailpiece $112.50

3. Gotoh tuning pegs $25.50

4. 4BF of African mohogany $36.00

5. PRS plans $21 (w/shipping)

6. MDF or hardboard for templates <$10 at local yard

7. 2 humbuckers $150

8. misc parts & hardware (shielding, pots, screws, etc) $50

9. finishing supplies $20

This has us with a running total of $638 without shipping (except for #5). There are plenty of places to cut costs, namely the bridge. Tone Pros are very expensive. A TOM can be had for <$50 without looking too hard. Making your neck would even out considering the specialty tools you'd need to get. The big savings (material cost) is making your own body. Note htat no price has been assigned to the drop top. That's because there are WAY too many variables to even come close. It'd be anywhere from $30 to over $200.

So, can it be done for a fraction of the cost? Absolutely. It won't be as good as a 'real' PRS, but that's only because it'll be your first go at it. There's no reason it wouldn't be very servicable and very playable, though. The satisfaction of making it yourself is well worth it, and in my opinion, a fair trade-off.

[fryovanni]

Before anyone else says anything about the cost of building the ax, let's really look at it.

The opening post stated he'd be working side by side with his father. That suggests the major power tools are already in place, so there's no expense there. Looking at the rest of what's needed (in no order) with what's already been stated:

1. Warmoth neck - mohogany & rosewood $213

2. Tone Pros TOM bridge & tailpiece $112.50

3. Gotoh tuning pegs $25.50

4. 4BF of African mohogany $36.00

5. PRS plans $21 (w/shipping)

6. MDF or hardboard for templates <$10 at local yard

7. 2 humbuckers $150

8. misc parts & hardware (shielding, pots, screws, etc) $50

9. finishing supplies $20

This has us with a running total of $638 without shipping (except for #5). There are plenty of places to cut costs, namely the bridge. Tone Pros are very expensive. A TOM can be had for <$50 without looking too hard. Making your neck would even out considering the specialty tools you'd need to get. The big savings (material cost) is making your own body. Note htat no price has been assigned to the drop top. That's because there are WAY too many variables to even come close. It'd be anywhere from $30 to over $200.

So, can it be done for a fraction of the cost? Absolutely. It won't be as good as a 'real' PRS, but that's only because it'll be your first go at it. There's no reason it wouldn't be very servicable and very playable, though. The satisfaction of making it yourself is well worth it, and in my opinion, a fair trade-off.

Unexpectedly naive

How happy would you be if your first could hold its own for fit and finish with an import PRS? How would you say your current builds do against a PRS import(and be real, those guitars do not have much in the way of blemishes)? How many people can honestly pull off fit and finish as good as a PRS import by their 3rd full build? An import PRS is not a sloppy guitar, and getting to that level of accuracy and consistency in your fit and finish is not easy(certainly respectable). The parts list you have up there is dandy, but look at what you are listing.

Neck- Built in a production shop(which is no better tooled up, or experienced than PRS's import factories), the neck is not assembled or adjusted for this guitar, you honestly have no control over material selection and care. What is it equal to? Why is it better than an import PRS neck?

Wood selection, The wood selection for this build is going to be done by a person who understands wood for instruments as well as PRS? Will wood purchased from the lumber yard be seasoned prior to use? Where would the ten top be found(you missed it in your list), and how much will that run?

Plans and templates from that source, Are those plans and the jigs and templates made from those plans going to be as accurate as the tooling and jigs used at the PRS import factory?

Finishing supplies, Your not buying the finishing supplies that are equal to the finish on the import PRS for $20. Maybe you are thinking a few sheets of sandpaper and a couple rattle cans? or is this a hand wiped poly/oil finish? For what it is worth, a good , thin, professionally applied catalized poly could be outsourced for $300-$400 plus shipping, and I would conceed that would be comperable, but that is a natural clear. Special coloring and tinting could run a couple bucks more.

The reality is, as you full well know. You can outsource much of the build. If great care is taken and research is done as well as some practice, the assembly can go pretty good(although the lack of experience or rushing could easily become costly and hurt the results). In the end, you can have a guitar that is on par with many low end models(and you can jazz it up with some features you can't get in the import lines), but the guitar will have less resale value than an import. The cost of the materials and outsourcing will bring the cost up to or higher than the import. You can't compair your first build to a high end guitar(the labor rate for experience, and production knowledge/ cost are not cheap). The differences between a PRS custom top 10 and a lower priced PRS line are subtle, and that holds true with $15,000 dollar customs also. The name on the guitar also helps with resale value, and that in the end changes the oportunity cost.

Either way, I hope his motivations are not to try to save a buck, and instead to enjoy the process of building something with his hands. Beginners who start by focusing on saving money, cutting corners, or unrealistic value comparisons, or even worse selling their builds right off the bat. Are usually sadly disapointed.

Peace,Rich

[avengers63]

I actually did mention the top.

Note htat no price has been assigned to the drop top. That's because there are WAY too many variables to even come close. It'd be anywhere from $30 to over $200.

I'm NOT trying to argue with you, but I do feel that further explanation is necessary.

For the $20 in finishing suplies, I was only figuring pure cost of materials. The first full paragraph assumes all necessary equipment. This is most likely a false assumption, but it was made for the sake of discussion. Please bear in mind the sources I linked were only for example. I would presume the body wood would be picked out in person. That link was only for price reference. Lastly, the list and links were made without ANY shopping around at all. Many reductions in cost can be found by putting in the necessary research time. I agree that cutting corners is NOT the way to get a quality build, but it's foolish to pay more for something than necessary.

The bottom line is, and I hope we can all agree with this, that a servicable guitar can be built for far less than the price of a new one. Again, this is assuming the tools are in place. Please note my last paragraph where I agreed that it'd be dang hard to match a PRS in quality. You're right that there are extremely important factors that would alter the final quality comparison. Without years of experience, unreasonably expensive equipment, and more time than we have, there's virtually no way we'd be able to match a top-of-the-line PRS. Very servicable and very playable, however, are a completely different story.

I agree that it'd probably take a number of builds to match a mid-grade production ax. Consider, though, that most of us are hobbyist luthiers with limited resources. Considering that we're basically a bunch of overgrown kids playing with our tools in the basement/garage/whatever, making an ax that compares with a $750-$1000 piece isn't too shabby.

[TyrsFromAbove]

Before anyone else says anything about the cost of building the ax, let's really look at it.

The opening post stated he'd be working side by side with his father. That suggests the major power tools are already in place, so there's no expense there. Looking at the rest of what's needed (in no order) with what's already been stated:

1. Warmoth neck - mohogany & rosewood $213

2. Tone Pros TOM bridge & tailpiece $112.50

3. Gotoh tuning pegs $25.50

4. 4BF of African mohogany $36.00

5. PRS plans $21 (w/shipping)

6. MDF or hardboard for templates <$10 at local yard

7. 2 humbuckers $150

8. misc parts & hardware (shielding, pots, screws, etc) $50

9. finishing supplies $20

This has us with a running total of $638 without shipping (except for #5). There are plenty of places to cut costs, namely the bridge. Tone Pros are very expensive. A TOM can be had for <$50 without looking too hard. Making your neck would even out considering the specialty tools you'd need to get. The big savings (material cost) is making your own body. Note htat no price has been assigned to the drop top. That's because there are WAY too many variables to even come close. It'd be anywhere from $30 to over $200.

So, can it be done for a fraction of the cost? Absolutely. It won't be as good as a 'real' PRS, but that's only because it'll be your first go at it. There's no reason it wouldn't be very servicable and very playable, though. The satisfaction of making it yourself is well worth it, and in my opinion, a fair trade-off.

Unexpectedly naive

How happy would you be if your first could hold its own for fit and finish with an import PRS? How would you say your current builds do against a PRS import(and be real, those guitars do not have much in the way of blemishes)? How many people can honestly pull off fit and finish as good as a PRS import by their 3rd full build? An import PRS is not a sloppy guitar, and getting to that level of accuracy and consistency in your fit and finish is not easy(certainly respectable). The parts list you have up there is dandy, but look at what you are listing.

Neck- Built in a production shop(which is no better tooled up, or experienced than PRS's import factories), the neck is not assembled or adjusted for this guitar, you honestly have no control over material selection and care. What is it equal to? Why is it better than an import PRS neck?

Wood selection, The wood selection for this build is going to be done by a person who understands wood for instruments as well as PRS? Will wood purchased from the lumber yard be seasoned prior to use? Where would the ten top be found(you missed it in your list), and how much will that run?

Plans and templates from that source, Are those plans and the jigs and templates made from those plans going to be as accurate as the tooling and jigs used at the PRS import factory?

Finishing supplies, Your not buying the finishing supplies that are equal to the finish on the import PRS for $20. Maybe you are thinking a few sheets of sandpaper and a couple rattle cans? or is this a hand wiped poly/oil finish? For what it is worth, a good , thin, professionally applied catalized poly could be outsourced for $300-$400 plus shipping, and I would conceed that would be comperable, but that is a natural clear. Special coloring and tinting could run a couple bucks more.

The reality is, as you full well know. You can outsource much of the build. If great care is taken and research is done as well as some practice, the assembly can go pretty good(although the lack of experience or rushing could easily become costly and hurt the results). In the end, you can have a guitar that is on par with many low end models(and you can jazz it up with some features you can't get in the import lines), but the guitar will have less resale value than an import. The cost of the materials and outsourcing will bring the cost up to or higher than the import. You can't compair your first build to a high end guitar(the labor rate for experience, and production knowledge/ cost are not cheap). The differences between a PRS custom top 10 and a lower priced PRS line are subtle, and that holds true with $15,000 dollar customs also. The name on the guitar also helps with resale value, and that in the end changes the oportunity cost.

Either way, I hope his motivations are not to try to save a buck, and instead to enjoy the process of building something with his hands. Beginners who start by focusing on saving money, cutting corners, or unrealistic value comparisons, or even worse selling their builds right off the bat. Are usually sadly disapointed.

Peace,Rich

For all, including Rich...

I never said it was actually going to be anything near a real PRS...I just really dig the body style and the carved top.

I understand that it's not going to come anywhere close, but I'm hoping that the satisfaction of having built it with my own two hands will help make up for that. And as far as the finish, I'm more in agreement with the above, thinking that I would just seal the guitar and not actually put a "finish" on it. I love that PRS look with the burst QM, but there's no way that I have the know-how or the cash to do something that complex.

[TyrsFromAbove]

Before anyone else says anything about the cost of building the ax, let's really look at it.

The opening post stated he'd be working side by side with his father. That suggests the major power tools are already in place, so there's no expense there. Looking at the rest of what's needed (in no order) with what's already been stated:

1. Warmoth neck - mohogany & rosewood $213

2. Tone Pros TOM bridge & tailpiece $112.50

3. Gotoh tuning pegs $25.50

4. 4BF of African mohogany $36.00

5. PRS plans $21 (w/shipping)

6. MDF or hardboard for templates <$10 at local yard

7. 2 humbuckers $150

8. misc parts & hardware (shielding, pots, screws, etc) $50

9. finishing supplies $20

This has us with a running total of $638 without shipping (except for #5). There are plenty of places to cut costs, namely the bridge. Tone Pros are very expensive. A TOM can be had for <$50 without looking too hard. Making your neck would even out considering the specialty tools you'd need to get. The big savings (material cost) is making your own body. Note htat no price has been assigned to the drop top. That's because there are WAY too many variables to even come close. It'd be anywhere from $30 to over $200.

So, can it be done for a fraction of the cost? Absolutely. It won't be as good as a 'real' PRS, but that's only because it'll be your first go at it. There's no reason it wouldn't be very servicable and very playable, though. The satisfaction of making it yourself is well worth it, and in my opinion, a fair trade-off.

It seems like you just stated everything that I wanted to hear...haha

This is exactly the type of thing I've been thinking of in my head as far as costs go.

And for all the critics, I never meant to have anything close to a real PRS, just a look a like that sounds halfway decent...

[avengers63]

I never said it was actually going to be anything near a real PRS...I just really dig the body style and the carved top.

I understand that it's not going to come anywhere close, but I'm hoping that the satisfaction of having built it with my own two hands will help make up for that. And as far as the finish, I'm more in agreement with the above, thinking that I would just seal the guitar and not actually put a "finish" on it. I love that PRS look with the burst QM, but there's no way that I have the know-how or the cash to do something that complex.

There are a number of different ways to apply a finish, but they all serve the same mechanical function: protecting the wood. FWIW, I finished the maple neck of my first build with brush-on lacquer, and it looks great. I'm looking forward to seeing how it does on a flat surface, wet-sanded up to 3000 grit, then buffed out with a $20 6" Ryobi buffer from Home Depot. This is to state that it can be done with inexpensive equipment. I'm not suggesting that expensive factory setups don't give a LOT better result, because they do. I'm only saying that for the dude in his garage, a nice finish is attainable w/o $1000 in equipment.

And for all the critics, I never meant to have anything close to a real PRS, just a look a like that sounds halfway decent...

Well, I know we're all in agreement that THAT'S a very attainable goal.

[djhollowman]

@ Tyrs....

I hope your first guitar gets as interesting and thought-provoking a reaction as your first topic on Project Guitar has!

Loving the discussion going on here.

This is why I keep coming back to PG Forums.

DJ

[Geo]

I would suggest that even $638 for the materials for a first project is too high. With no experience, the chances of screwing something up are pretty high. Why not spend less, get some cheap hardware, get poplar or something cheap for the body, etc. That way you aren't investing so much money in your yet-to-be-developed skills.

I'll provide my own price list, open for critique (materials only, no tools or shipping)

Body blank $70

neck blank $20

truss rod $20

fingerboard $10

fretwire $5

tuners $30

bridge ~$30

misc. electronics $10?

materials to make your own pickups $70

oil finish materials ~$20

$285

I think the most important thing is to not shoot too high. Rather than trying to build your dream guitar right away, build something that interests you: something where you can accept a less-than-stellar finished product. Take on as big a challenge as you want--carved top, set neck, fancy binding, whatever, as long as you've done your homework AND understand that your first project will not end up as a dream guitar. It will be a very exciting, nervewracking, and fulfilling learning experience.

A small note: I bought a body blank from this guy once. It was flawless and the price was very good. They don't show anything in stock right now, but just so you have the link:

http://mammothguitars.com/woodinventory.php

Edited June 20, 2008 by Geo

[fryovanni]

I agree that it'd probably take a number of builds to match a mid-grade production ax. Consider, though, that most of us are hobbyist luthiers with limited resources. Considering that we're basically a bunch of overgrown kids playing with our tools in the basement/garage/whatever, making an ax that compares with a $750-$1000 piece isn't too shabby.

Agreed

I really don't want to come across as being unsupportive here, and I don't want get into a grand debate. My goal was to make sure you understood it is not cheaper to build your own until you have invested a lot of money in tools and have the experience to use them. Off the rack guitars are inexpensive and built pretty dang well. People who have never built before often time look at high end guitars to compair values, and it is not a good comparison. The prices for materials that have been listed are very doable for home brew builds. What you choose to use can vary the overall cost, and most first time builders use less expensive materials to get their feet wet(very smart approach, as long as they pay attension to low priced woods that are still good cuts and very well dried and stable). I absolutely love this hobby, and hope that you will love building also. I think the concept of what can be had off the shelf(so you can start playing with garenteed results) vs what you may be able to build is hopefully clear.

This is what could be had for around $600-PRS SE Custom, this would be the best option if your interest is mainly in having a guitar to play.

Your first build will cost that much if not more in materials and tools. It will take between 6 months and a year and a half to build. If your build plays as well, and it's fit and finish is as good. You will have done as well builders with a couple guitars or more under their belt(some can't pull off that clean a build on their 10th plus build). Nuff said about that.

As far as your build, again get that book. Go look around at plans and templates that are available. You will likely find what you are looking for. Before you buy any wood, parts, tools. Read the book that you pick up, this should give you insights into selecting wood, and make sure you are clear on considerations for different hardware. Buy your plans, and study them to determine the dimenional requirements for your wood. If you choose to make your own templates from the set of plans as opposed to purchasing them, focus on that taking great care to be accurate(better your templates the better and easier your results will be. It is a good idea to have all your hardware and parts on hand to verify the accuracy of your jigs and templates.

When you get around to selecting wood, you would do well to choose woods that are easy to work with as well as reasonably priced. African Mahogany(Khaya) is a good choice, and is not too difficult to obtain. You should look in the yellow pages or do a web search for hardwood or lumber dealers near you. You will be able to save yourself the cost of shipping, and hand select based on what you learn from your book. If you decide to go for a figured maple top, you can look locally and if you are able resaw a set. If you have no luck locally, 3D hardwoods, Gilmer wood, Gallery hardwoods are all pretty good places to look around.

Rich

[avengers63]

I would suggest that even $638 for the materials for a first project is too high. With no experience, the chances of screwing something up are pretty high. Why not spend less, get some cheap hardware, get poplar or something cheap for the body, etc. That way you aren't investing so much money in your yet-to-be-developed skills.

I TOTALLY agree. I was going off of what he said he was planing on using. For MY money, I'd alter it to something similar to this:

1. Karosa neck (eBay seller, decent necks) $50-$75

2. one-piece wilkinson tailpiece (eBay) $25

3. Gotoh tuning pegs (eBay) $25.00

4. 4BF of sapele $25

5. PRS plans $21 (w/shipping)

6. MDF or hardboard for templates <$10 at local yard

7. 2 GFS humbuckers $80-$90

8. misc parts & hardware $30 (again, eBay)

9. finishing supplies $20 (locally bought)

Note that all prices include shipping. That has my total at $286-$$321, so figure $300 or so. You can bring it down probably $50 by getting some used pups on eBay that someone pulled out of their Ibanez or whatever when they upgraded. They might not be top line, but they'll be OK to start with. FWIW: When I replaced the EMGs in my '88 Steinberger, someone got a steal when they bought an 81 & 2 SAs, with all electronics, for just over $50.

Honestly, and I know I'll get railed for this, I would encourage a beginner to buy a neck for the first build. There are already a LOT of things that can and will go wrong the first time out. It may be a LOT more expensive than building it yourself, but it also eliminates about 300 things that can go wrong. You can get away with a slip here and there on the body. One slip in the wrong place on the neck and you're screwed.

[TyrsFromAbove]

I would suggest that even $638 for the materials for a first project is too high. With no experience, the chances of screwing something up are pretty high. Why not spend less, get some cheap hardware, get poplar or something cheap for the body, etc. That way you aren't investing so much money in your yet-to-be-developed skills.

I TOTALLY agree. I was going off of what he said he was planing on using. For MY money, I'd alter it to something similar to this:

1. Karosa neck (eBay seller, decent necks) $50-$75

2. one-piece wilkinson tailpiece (eBay) $25

3. Gotoh tuning pegs (eBay) $25.00

4. 4BF of sapele $25

5. PRS plans $21 (w/shipping)

6. MDF or hardboard for templates <$10 at local yard

7. 2 GFS humbuckers $80-$90

8. misc parts & hardware $30 (again, eBay)

9. finishing supplies $20 (locally bought)

Note that all prices include shipping. That has my total at $286-$$321, so figure $300 or so. You can bring it down probably $50 by getting some used pups on eBay that someone pulled out of their Ibanez or whatever when they upgraded. They might not be top line, but they'll be OK to start with. FWIW: When I replaced the EMGs in my '88 Steinberger, someone got a steal when they bought an 81 & 2 SAs, with all electronics, for just over $50.

Honestly, and I know I'll get railed for this, I would encourage a beginner to buy a neck for the first build. There are already a LOT of things that can and will go wrong the first time out. It may be a LOT more expensive than building it yourself, but it also eliminates about 300 things that can go wrong. You can get away with a slip here and there on the body. One slip in the wrong place on the neck and you're screwed.

Yeah, I figured that the neck was going to be the most expensive piece...I'm looking at 213 from Warmoth.

And as far as pups, I was looking to get the SD HR set, so even if I somehow let this project get away from me, I can still use 'em in my other guitar.

[TyrsFromAbove]

I agree that it'd probably take a number of builds to match a mid-grade production ax. Consider, though, that most of us are hobbyist luthiers with limited resources. Considering that we're basically a bunch of overgrown kids playing with our tools in the basement/garage/whatever, making an ax that compares with a $750-$1000 piece isn't too shabby.

Agreed

When you get around to selecting wood, you would do well to choose woods that are easy to work with as well as reasonably priced. African Mahogany(Khaya) is a good choice, and is not too difficult to obtain. You should look in the yellow pages or do a web search for hardwood or lumber dealers near you. You will be able to save yourself the cost of shipping, and hand select based on what you learn from your book. If you decide to go for a figured maple top, you can look locally and if you are able resaw a set. If you have no luck locally, 3D hardwoods, Gilmer wood, Gallery hardwoods are all pretty good places to look around.

Rich

I've actually got a piece of Honduran Mahogany lined up at a local shop for the body, guy said it would run about 35 bucks for 2 pieces of it (10"x12"x2") Ill be able to glue 'em together to make the necessary size for the body I want. And I'll probably pick up a nice looking piece of cheap maple for the top.

[WezV]

well lots of issues to consider here aint they... i know for a fact my finishes are not as good as USA PRS's and i dont even think they are as good as the cheaper PRS's... infact sometimes i can look at a very cheap guitar in a shop and think they have more flawless finishes.... personally i am not trying to compete on that level. luckily the people that buy my guitars are not as obsessed with finish imperfections as i am...but it do mention it to them all first.

price... well i know when i started out i wanted my dads help.... that doesnt mean my dad had all the tools i needed though!!! I didnt get my dads help and i had to buy most of the stuff i needed but he didnt have it either so it would have needed buying anyway. the original budget for my first guitar was £150 ($300) and if you look at the cost of parts i wasnt far off that (for a single pickup lp jnr style build). i dont even want to think about the amount i spent on tools to get that £150 project completed, and as my first guitar - it played like crap.. i see much better here every day. Fry's advice is good, just doing a quick shopping list of parts does not tell you the true cost of building a guitar.