Too Much Neck Angle..?

[pariah223]

So my project was moving right along nicely, looks great... but now i think i might be in trouble. I think somehow the neck angle ended up being too much (not sure how, i kept checking it as i was mounting the neck... ) I was wondering at the bridge... what string height becomes an unplayable instrument.. or even unpleasant? I want to go ahead and finish this guitar but i want to make sure im not making a useless instrument. I know i wont have any action problems as long as i make the bridge saddle high enough... but i also know that the strings will be quite a bit off the body where i will be strumming. Right now, without the frets.. if i put a straight edge on the fretboard, and measure where the bridge would be.. its about a half inch gap.. About 1/8 more than my sources say it should be. am i doomed?

Edited July 24, 2008 by pariah223

[killemall8]

that means not enough neck angle. too much and the strings would be toutching the fretboard all the way across.

[IWishICouldShred]

I think what he's asking is if he were to have the bridge high enough to set up an idea action with too much neck angle, what problems might arise

My answer would be that comfort would probably be the biggest concern-- I don't think it would hurt the acoustic properties too much, considering that many other stringed instruments have a very high bridge setup with an even steeper neck angle. It might be hard to find a case to accomodate the extra bridge height, too, depending on how much it is.

[fryovanni]

So my project was moving right along nicely, looks great... but now i think i might be in trouble. I think somehow the neck angle ended up being too much (not sure how, i kept checking it as i was mounting the neck... ) I was wondering at the bridge... what string height becomes an unplayable instrument.. or even unpleasant? I want to go ahead and finish this guitar but i want to make sure im not making a useless instrument. I know i wont have any action problems as long as i make the bridge saddle high enough... but i also know that the strings will be quite a bit off the body where i will be strumming. Right now, without the frets.. if i put a straight edge on the fretboard, and measure where the bridge would be.. its about a half inch gap.. About 1/8 more than my sources say it should be. am i doomed?

If I am following you correctly, you have 1/2" of clearance between the body and the straight edge at the bridge location when measured with no frets installed in the board. I am not sure what height your bridge saddles will set at(bottomed out). What type of bridge? What type of guitar(acoustic?)?

[Mattia]

We're in the acoustics section, Rich ;-)

Yes, you have too much neck angle. I shoot for hitting the top of the bridge, or clearing it slightly, with the fret on.

[fryovanni]

We're in the acoustics section, Rich ;-)

Yes, you have too much neck angle. I shoot for hitting the top of the bridge, or clearing it slightly, with the fret on.

Sorry bout that. Clicked here from the new post section and didn't look.

Exactly what Mattia said.

Rich

[pariah223]

i know i have too much of a neck angle, what i am trying to figure out is if the extra 1/8 height at the bridge is going to make the guitar totally unplayable? or just not quite as comfortable as it should be. I can settle for it not being as perfect and as fine tuned as i would want it to be just because this whole first guitar is more of a learning expereience... im not expecting to produce a perfect instrument... i just wanna make sure it will still be a guitar i can play and not a longbow i could hunt with.

EDIT: Just so its clear.. i went the dovetail route.... so removing the neck and fixing the angle might be more trouble than it is worth if the strings being a little higher than optimal at the bridge position is not the end of the world

Edited July 25, 2008 by pariah223

[Mattia]

1/8" too much at the bridge means 1/16" too much at 12th fret. Whether or not you feel it's acceptable is up to you. To drop the string height one unit at twelfth, you need to drop the bridge height two units. And vice versa. Rule of similar triangles and all. See, geometry class was good for something!

[pariah223]

im not sure i understand... or maybe im not wording it right. What im trying to say is for me to get the action i want, i have to have the bridge height a little higher than is suggested in my resources due to a greater neck angle than intended.. So the action over the strings will be good... but it will make strings in the strumming area higher than suggested.

[Myka Guitars]

I agree that the neck angle is too much and as a result you will have a very tall bridge/saddle height. While this won't necessarily make it unplayable what it will do is add some extra rotational force to the soundboard via the bridge. Over time this will deform the top of the guitar more easily than a lower bridge height will. How much so depends on your bracing. If you have heavy bracing you will get more life out of it. If you braced it lightly you could find that the top deforms radically and within a short period of time. This will affect the tone of the guitar and it will ultimately affect playability when the top starts to dip and pulls the neck up. It's all about leverage and the higher string height equates to more leverage (pulling/rotating force on the bridge).

But the short answer is no it won't make it unplayable in the short term. In the long term you might have some more serious structural issues to deal with. So you just might end up resetting the neck in a couple of years anyway. It is not that difficult to remove a neck and if you plan to have this guitar for years you might want to just go ahead and do it right. Check out this article from Frank Ford. It might be easier than you think.

For what it's worth I shoot for a 1/2" bridge height when the guitar is complete. 5/8" seems too high but I have seen guitars like this. Not sure how they look after a few years though.

~David

[pariah223]

thanks for the excellent reply Myka... exactly the answer i was looking for.

[imott]

I agree that the neck angle is too much and as a result you will have a very tall bridge/saddle height. While this won't necessarily make it unplayable what it will do is add some extra rotational force to the soundboard via the bridge. Over time this will deform the top of the guitar more easily than a lower bridge height will. How much so depends on your bracing. If you have heavy bracing you will get more life out of it. If you braced it lightly you could find that the top deforms radically and within a short period of time. This will affect the tone of the guitar and it will ultimately affect playability when the top starts to dip and pulls the neck up. It's all about leverage and the higher string height equates to more leverage (pulling/rotating force on the bridge).

But the short answer is no it won't make it unplayable in the short term. In the long term you might have some more serious structural issues to deal with. So you just might end up resetting the neck in a couple of years anyway. It is not that difficult to remove a neck and if you plan to have this guitar for years you might want to just go ahead and do it right. Check out this article from Frank Ford. It might be easier than you think.

For what it's worth I shoot for a 1/2" bridge height when the guitar is complete. 5/8" seems too high but I have seen guitars like this. Not sure how they look after a few years though.

~David

This is what I am talking about!!!

PEACE

i

PS...Them in the mail!!! Thx Bro!!!

Edited July 26, 2008 by imott

[GoodWood]

Try OLF there is a good tutorial on neck angle over there.

[scab]

I agree that the neck angle is too much and as a result you will have a very tall bridge/saddle height. While this won't necessarily make it unplayable what it will do is add some extra rotational force to the soundboard via the bridge. Over time this will deform the top of the guitar more easily than a lower bridge height will. How much so depends on your bracing. If you have heavy bracing you will get more life out of it. If you braced it lightly you could find that the top deforms radically and within a short period of time. This will affect the tone of the guitar and it will ultimately affect playability when the top starts to dip and pulls the neck up. It's all about leverage and the higher string height equates to more leverage (pulling/rotating force on the bridge).

But the short answer is no it won't make it unplayable in the short term. In the long term you might have some more serious structural issues to deal with. So you just might end up resetting the neck in a couple of years anyway. It is not that difficult to remove a neck and if you plan to have this guitar for years you might want to just go ahead and do it right. Check out this article from Frank Ford. It might be easier than you think.

For what it's worth I shoot for a 1/2" bridge height when the guitar is complete. 5/8" seems too high but I have seen guitars like this. Not sure how they look after a few years though.

~David

I just found my krupps expresso machine last week at a garage sale. I noticed when I saw him @ R-V he said to make sure you get the krupps b/c it's one of the only expresso machines that has a stem shut-off valve..