zeppelinchld Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 swirled w/ the borax method used to be a strat http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r161/ze...ld/IMG_0609.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanFafian Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Not bad for a first try. How much Borax did you se in the water? I am about to do this to an old Wah pedal but I am not sure on the amounts thata are needed for this. I used to have a formula of grams/liters, but can't find the darned notes I took. Cool job again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Wow, that's pretty good for a borax job! I tried testing dozens of pieces using the borax method, but I just couldn't get anything that was close to good enough. I kept having problems with "craters" caused by water droplets in the finish. I just couldn't seem to get rid of the water quickly enough or something! Most frustrating! But I think I might resurrect the idea having seen this one! I still really want to swirl my primer-white Washburn mule. Please give some details! DJ BTW - your Strat now resembles a Westone Spectrum in shape! Like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppelinchld Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 i used about a little more than a cup of borax and testors paint and kept having problems w/ the paint skinning over, as in it would create a film over the surface. but for some reason when i put the paint in the last time it didnt skin over so i dipped it and it came out fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiago Sarturi Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) I'm just starting to to read tutorials to do a swirl on a body of mine, and i'm seeing people talking about the trouble of when you have to take the guitar of the water tank full of paint. I'm a newbie but i have two ideas... If i use a very large tank so i pour paint on one side and remove the guitar from the other with clear surface??? If i dive the guitar before add the colour (i just want one swirled color over my normal finish) and them push it out slowly??? Edited August 13, 2008 by Tiago Sarturi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I'm just starting to to read tutorials to do a swirl on a body of mine, and i'm seeing people talking about the trouble of when you have to take the guitar of the water tank full of paint. I'm a newbie but i have two ideas... If i use a very large tank so i pour paint on one side and remove the guitar from the other with clear surface??? If i dive the guitar before add the colour (i just want one swirled color over my normal finish) and them push it out slowly??? I've been wondering about something quite similar! In most, if not all of the tutorials I've read the paint is being applied to the body on the downward stroke, ie. as you're submersing the body. You then have to clear an area in the water in which to remove the body, to avoid applying more unwanted paint. I'm wondering how it would work if you submersed the body first, then put the paint into suspension in the water, and then pulled the body upwards through it, so that the paint is applied as the body leaves the tank. I think this is basically the same as your second idea? Gonna have to break out the dipping tank and some wood scraps methinks! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppelinchld Posted August 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 i just use a piece of newspaper and push the excess paint to the side once its submerged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiago Sarturi Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I'm just starting to to read tutorials to do a swirl on a body of mine, and i'm seeing people talking about the trouble of when you have to take the guitar of the water tank full of paint. I'm a newbie but i have two ideas... If i use a very large tank so i pour paint on one side and remove the guitar from the other with clear surface??? If i dive the guitar before add the colour (i just want one swirled color over my normal finish) and them push it out slowly??? I've been wondering about something quite similar! In most, if not all of the tutorials I've read the paint is being applied to the body on the downward stroke, ie. as you're submersing the body. You then have to clear an area in the water in which to remove the body, to avoid applying more unwanted paint. I'm wondering how it would work if you submersed the body first, then put the paint into suspension in the water, and then pulled the body upwards through it, so that the paint is applied as the body leaves the tank. I think this is basically the same as your second idea? Gonna have to break out the dipping tank and some wood scraps methinks! DJ What i would do... I should put a screw only on strap button hole of the right side of the body (fitting screw), dive the guitar underwater and leave it alone underwater with a fake neck holding on the side.. (the screw only serves to don't drop the guitar directly on the bottom). Add the color, do the swirl and push the guitar out slowly. Seems very working to me. Of course you just could call a friend to hold the body when you drop those paints.... I don't like the idea of diveing a guitar body under water, but swirl worth it even if damage. Maybe people dive the body after ad the colours to minimize the time that the body will be under pressure of the water, but a don't think this should a major problem with a well sealed body.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyt Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 holding a guitar under is quite an effort. The easiest way to clear the paint is use a hair dryer, blows all the paint to the sides of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarradan Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 i used about a little more than a cup of borax and testors paint and kept having problems w/ the paint skinning over, as in it would create a film over the surface. but for some reason when i put the paint in the last time it didnt skin over so i dipped it and it came out fine Has anyone come up with a cause of the paint drying?.I am having the same problem. I know on the tuorial on this site says don't use testors, but, my first run (15 dips in all) went well.The nex day i came out to try more and my paint dries almost on contact. I changed the water heated it up cooled it down added borax and took some out. I'm stumped. Can you think of what if anything you did differently? Did you use gloss or matt testors paint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppelinchld Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 what happens alot is i let it sit for a second or two then it dries on the water so i use a skinny dowel or something like that and gather up all the dried parts and sometimes there is paint still floating around that isnt dried but it tends to be very thin and wouldnt cover a whole body. im pretty sure its gloss not matte. do u have problems with every color or only some. For some reason the blacks greens and reds are extremely difficult to get to work, but when i use silver for example it works almost every time. i think i will try thinnning the paint just a little w/ mineral spirits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarradan Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 what happens alot is i let it sit for a second or two then it dries on the water so i use a skinny dowel or something like that and gather up all the dried parts and sometimes there is paint still floating around that isnt dried but it tends to be very thin and wouldnt cover a whole body. im pretty sure its gloss not matte. do u have problems with every color or only some. For some reason the blacks greens and reds are extremely difficult to get to work, but when i use silver for example it works almost every time. i think i will try thinnning the paint just a little w/ mineral spirits. Hi I emailed testors and they said there should be no difference in drying time between matt and gloss.But temp and humidity definitly will.Enamel is designed to dry extremely fast. every color i use dries almost instantly. I have bought new paint, and used a bunch of old paint from the 1990's.I have had the same expirience with scraping off the dried part to find paint moving perfectly underneath but too weak of color to use. The weird thing is when i put a new deep red in the water it turns pinkish. An art store person told me probably the solution is too strong and is destroying the red pigment.We had it working perfectly one night, then not at all. I just need to know what element causes the paints to dry.Still stumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppelinchld Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 r u using borax because im not noticing a difference between when i do and when i dont and ive tried it w/ just a little and ive tried it w/ a lot but i dont really notice the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelow Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I've done swirl three times on guitars already. And hundreds of test dips Testor paints dries too quick for me (that's unadvantage) but dissolves slow and steady (advantage). For swirling more than two colors you need the opposite - dissolving fast and drying slow. That's why Humbrol paints are better. My experience: - adding more borax speeds up dissolving - higher temperature speeds ud dissolving and drying - thinnig the paint speeds up dissolving - using more paint gives better colors (I think Sarradan should use more paint, see red on picture below - while doing swirl on the guitar I used less red paint, on scrap I used more) - wait too long with puring next color and it'll 'eat' the first - dip, use something to clean the surface of water and pull out the guitar - blow the water off with an air gun My latest (test...) swirl. I've used less paint on the body, that's why the colors are different and it actually like red and black ants Red and black are humbrol paints, yellow is testor (it didn't dissolved well...). Previous swirl: And a movie Last two paints were thinned too much and when I pured white (ok, too much...) black was already dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarradan Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I've done swirl three times on guitars already. And hundreds of test dips Testor paints dries too quick for me (that's unadvantage) but dissolves slow and steady (advantage). For swirling more than two colors you need the opposite - dissolving fast and drying slow. That's why Humbrol paints are better. My experience: - adding more borax speeds up dissolving - higher temperature speeds ud dissolving and drying - thinnig the paint speeds up dissolving - using more paint gives better colors (I think Sarradan should use more paint, see red on picture below - while doing swirl on the guitar I used less red paint, on scrap I used more) - wait too long with puring next color and it'll 'eat' the first - dip, use something to clean the surface of water and pull out the guitar - blow the water off with an air gun My latest (test...) swirl. I've used less paint on the body, that's why the colors are different and it actually like red and black ants Red and black are humbrol paints, yellow is testor (it didn't dissolved well...). Previous swirl: And a movie Last two paints were thinned too much and when I pured white (ok, too much...) black was already dry. Very nice! Hmm how big is your tub?. Dimensions and volume? On the PG tutorial he used 50 gallon rubbermaid drum, with 1 cup of borax. I am using a 48 gallon container with 1 cup of borax. I tried some more test dips tonight to mixed results. The temperature of the water and garage was stable. The first couple were exactly the same result, skinned over no good.Then we got 3 in a row to work , then 2 that didn't. This leads me to believe that the temp humidity and borax content must all be in perfect order for the viscosity of the paint you are using.Testors is the only paint i have used, but i think you can account for the drying time by adjusting the other factors ie thinning the paint,borax etc).I also believe that the water surface is critical.The first color down has to be the perfect viscosity and weight to create the exact surface for the other paint to move on.Too little and it dries and strands the other colors, too thick and it overloads and the colors clot. here is one i did that worked http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s153/shrly2/swirls023.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 That's worked really well, Sarradan...nice one! Right, must dig out the plastic bin and the paint pots this weekend! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 I gotta admit this paint technology is simply incredible. I'll be building a V in the next few months and my painter buddy is going to do some experimenting. Right now we are gathering info and he'll be testing with scrap wood. He wants to try laying a clearcoat between each dipped color to give it some overall depth. I've never done a dip before but from what I've read so far I think I understand the concept. I would just like to get some unanimous clarification. The borax increases the surface tension of the water which repels the paint, ie. the paint floats higher and stays bunched up. When an object is dipped the floating paint adheres to its surface like a reversed skin, the top of the floating paint is now the bottom of the paint on the guitar. Immersing first would not work, the guitar has to be dry for the paint to stick..right? I guess it depends on the nature of the paint, but I'm sure it isn't water based Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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