Cult Classic Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Hello all. my new 15w vox valvetronix arrived today, and iv been fiddling but not had a huge amount of luck. has anyone with a vox got a led zep sound? thanks Jono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anderekel Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Well, goin' straight to the amp, you probably won't get a led zep sound. Jimmy Page used marshalls and I've heard orange amps too. While Vox's are cool and I like the sound, they don't sound like marshalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Well...in fact the classic LZ sound from the first two albums was mainly telecaster and a small supro amp not that much more powerful than the 15 watter...well, maybe a bit more! The marshals and LP's and stuff were stage guitars in the main...page used a lot of guitars in the studio from danelectros (white summer) to the telecaster (stairway solo) to strats (in the evening). Page also was a master of mic placement and room sound...some amps can model cabinets, mics and reverbs to simulate this effect. I am not familiar with the vox and it's capabilities but I am sure it has enough in there to model something...the question is what guitar are you putting into it, any external effects, and what effects and eq is available in there. The next question is what kind of LZ sound are you after? Be aware that if there is modeling all manufactuers go way over the top with presets...distortions tend to be super saturated and digital distortions rarely sound that good. It is possible to do a decent impersonation with tweaking and like all things, dip into it and have a go crafting sounds and learning what the thing can do...I suspect it's in there somewhere. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Classic Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 im using a rubbishy guitar at the moment, i have a build planned but wont be done for a while. maybe ill just fiddle. not ever gunna sound like a marshall is it. thanks for the help Jono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudz Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Jimmy Page actually used vox amps quite alot after the first couple albums. And who know that his tele had really thin strings on it (8s) and his supro was not too different from a fender twin but he used a solasound tonebender fuzz pedal in front of it. But Jimmy used many amps and the marshalls were only used live. In studio he used a few supros, vox amps, hiwatts, and I think he had a couple fenders. As for guitars he had multiple strats, three teles (1 ruined after the first tour), I believe 4 les pauls that he used in studio including the black beauty that was stolen, a fender xii, a rickenbacker, a danelectro (which was said to be used only live and that a tele was used for recording what sounds like it), and of course he used the doubleneck sg live. I studied this for a while but I am not saying that I am totally accurate as page never really fully evaluted on his studio gear to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Stick your amp into a kitchen cupboard and play the song Houses of the Holy. Thats how Page got the "sound" for that song when they recorded Physical Graffitti. They did all kinds of experimentation back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Classic Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 how can i get the zep sound would you say? a new, better guitar? iv been on the setting "uk 70's" and basically its just high gain. i could in the future get another amp? im after the zep sound tbh. nothing else. thanks. Jonathan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Well...as I said earlier...what is the "Zep sound"...you really need to give more detail such as specifying a track or part of a track that really appeals. A lot of any sound is in the approach to playing and the way the strings are plucked...in the fingers and not the gear. The physical graffitii kind of era really took that layered guitar orchestration to the max with a lot of guitars with very different sounds that you wouldn't normally want to hear on their own, but sound great all together. You will not get a really decent sound from the presets on these little amps and with an 8" speaker it is limited. You really need to get in there and change the EQ (tone controls), loose a fair amount of the distortion (try overdrive) and the compression. I find the noise limiting also makes a big impact and this should be dialed back or removed. For a general "zep" sound I find the guitar to be relatively bright on record...more crunchy than smooth...so I'd be going for an overdriven sound with some reverb or delay of about 300ms mixed low and short (one repeat even). If you really hear some of the LZ recordings, it sounds like page is playing inside a cardboard box sometimes...it isn't the sound that you might think. AC-DC have a similar kind of sound, especially with the rhythm guitar...very bright and sitting well into the mix...although a different approach to playing...notice to with them how well the two guitars mesh together without stepping on each other...something page really brought to the rock blueprint. Selecting a marshall model will often get you into the typical ball park on these things...but dial back the distortion and switch to overdrive or just the amp...cut back on the compression which is almost always overdone on these things...a bit of reverb or delay, but very short. LZ and page can be a sloppy as all get out, but they do play in sync and have a kind of swing or "swagger" to the way it is played (not robotic like a lot of metal) and they also have a lot of stop start and syncopation. To do this you need a powerful sound that is crisp and does not hang on so that when you stop, you are stopped. The more modern sound tends to favour the more legato kind of sound and is full and creamy and lingers for days...in the 90's music tended to be swamped in chorus and echos...you don't want either of those... but the LZ sound has a lot to do with the way you play, force of picking, damping is very important...and to do it properly this swagger element that is very hard to do with a drum machine as it has no give. It's not something that you can dial up nor will be fixed with a new guitar. I have heard a lot of players that can do the page thing well though regardless of equipment...it is largely this feel thing. There is a lot of material out there to learn the LZ material but it is a lot more than the note choice...much of which is not always typical (the mixing of major and minor pentatonics in leads) but it is far less about note choices and much more about this feel. Keep those riffs punchy and at the same time loose, and don't forget to keep the spaces...rock on! pete ps...not knowing the amp, it is very hard to be specific...I could dial in a credible kind of sound on something I have here, but it would be kind of meaningless. My old Korg AX-1G came with a credible (if a little cheesy) version of the sound for dazed and confused...kind of greasy distortion with a slap back thing for the violin bow part on the expression pedal...but you wont sound right for stairway. The importance of the feel thing is really evident in that the page could get on stage with either an LP and do a whole show with one sound yet still play instantly recognizable page despite the recordings being done with layered guitars, tele's and iny amps stuck in cupboards and such...it really is all about that feel, the "tone" is just the icing on the cake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudz Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Psw really nailed it I think. WHat I was trying to get at in my other post wast that Page got his sound and many variations of it with many different combinations of gear. Some people can have the perfect gear and sound nothing like him. In the past couple of months I've practiced alot of his technique and I'd say now a could cop away with some his tones on most guitars and amps. You could have Page's actual gear and sound nothing like him then someone else could have a cheap plywood chinese made guitar and a tiny .5 watt amp and sound like him. If you are looking for a good overdrive for the sound then I would recomend the digitech screamin blues and bad monkey overdrives but first practice your technique, lower any gain and compression, and keep the mids from being scooped. I loosely remember playing a similar vox amp that got good zeppelin sound with mids i between mid and all the way up, treble a little behind that, and bass in between the two on I think the crunch setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks Dudz for the endorsement...you really need to play with the amps presets and stuff...there is no way around it, that's why they are programmable. To do that, you need to get a grasp of what the various effects and modeling functions do and really listen to the sound on recordings to get a grasp on what you are actually hearing vs. what you think you are hearing or the image of that sound (an LP and a wall of marshalls). Actually...a cheap guitar may well be a better instrument to get a lot of the LZ sounds, especially the early ones...it is kind of scrappy compared to a player like slash that have copped the "image"...it honestly is a very lo-fi sound. Something suitable is in that box and your guitar, you just need to dig in to get it...don't give up. I am sure people would be happy to try and help you understand the differences between things like distortion vs. overdrive and terms like crunch, saturation, compression, noise reduction Eq scooping and stuff...also, perhaps pulling apart an LZ track to get that kind of sound...it's all part of learning the guitar I'm afraid.. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Classic Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 cheers for the long and detailed answers. iv only been playing electric guitar for around 6 months to a year, previously to that i got to grade 1 on classical. but i went 4 years without a single proper lesson. im currently being taught in the ways of classic rock, because thats what i requested out of my teacher. ill just have to fiddle. Jono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Classic Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) i think i bought the wrong amp check out this vox. THAT is the tone i want http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vCFE26oPZMc (yeah i know its exspensive but there has to be a vox that gives a similar sound) Edited January 2, 2009 by Cult Classic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 That is a fairly standard tone..you should b able to getthat with anything.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Classic Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 i cant seem to get it with the valvetronix. its the acdc style hes playing that really attracts me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 AC/DC play through marshall if I am not mistaken...but the one you have may just not get enough gain...don't get me wrong...he is not using much gain...but it is more than your typical Vox may have... You may need a gain pedal... http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product...edal?sku=151392 I believe this should get you there if that is,in fact,the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 actually...if you check the clips on this one http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product...ssue?sku=150343 It sounds closer to the video you linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 the vox will have enough gain for death metal..... its a modeling amp. i read somewhere Angus Young has an ac30 miked in an iso booth off stage with 50 dummy marshalls onstage... surely at least one of the 6 AC amp models in the valvetronix will get close enough?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Goodness me... There is no "Zep in a Box" I did find this thread here that spells out what the modeled amps are based on...LINK...UK70's is supposedly a marshal plexi and might be a place to start. However, we are talking about a modeling amp here. Notice how even with the non-modeling clip you posted earlier, the guy knows what the controls do and how they interact...you need to learn to do that. With modeling amps, these controls are sometimes hidden in menus or something...I am not familiar with that amp. A tubescreamer will perhaps give you a better distortion than the modeled versions...but really, a decent sound from the little practice amp and 8" speaker is in there, you just need to learn to bring it out. What controls are there that you can tweak from the basic model. ALso be aware, at 15 watts if you are running this at any kind of loud volume (like all the way up) it is going to go into clipping fairly severely and possible not in a good way. Vox make some good amps and at your stage of playing it is likely a very good starter amp...I'm not sure what you used as a guide to buy it...perhaps your guitar teacher might be able to show you how to get into the sounds in there... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Classic Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 i best have a fiddle about then. is an effects pedal going to have a profound effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 depends on your definition of profound..........and your opinion of the pedal............ and the way the amp takes that particular pedal.......... and the way the pedals dialed in.......and what brand battery you have in the pedal forget about a pedal for now, your vox has a massive array of amp models and effects, come to grips with all that before adding any extra complications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 +1 I found the manual...http://www.voxamps.com/support/manuals/ There is plenty in there and the UK 70's is a good place to start...don't know what pickups you are using to drive it of course... Under the UK 70's it says to turn the volume to max and use the master to control the overall level...this might lay it on a little too thick so play with these two controls to vary the amount of distortion. Turn off the effects section I would suggest and adjust the various tone controls to suit your guitar...it's all about listening closely and working out what is missing, too bright, not enough bass, too much midrange mud...that's what all that stuff is there for. I am sure it is in there and yes, you may need to do some fiddling about...the sounds on the clip you posted are all in there it would seem at a lower volume and less valve warmth...so just have some fun with it till you get a decent sound. As said earlier though, a lot is in the way you play, although Led Zep is often easy to play...page was the master of the riff...it can be quite tricky to get a sound convincing of him and a lot of it in my opinion is to do with effective damping. This is a difficult aspect to master and at your stage probably still needs a fair amount of time yet to master...keep at it though, people spend a lifetime on this. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I was unaware Vox made a modeling amp...looking at it on MF it looks like a line 6 clone in a different box. Borge is right,you need no pedal...you just need to use the amp for what it is designed to do... I notice it has an AC30 model built into it.... no way is an 8" speaker going to sound like a 2 by 12 though...but you can get passable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Classic Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 ok. thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I was just playing with my newest amp...a behringer v-tone gmx 212...I got the same tone as that video you linked to by using the high gain channel on british with the mode on hi gain and the speakers on "uk"...dialed the gain back to 6 or7 and dropped the mids to 0...if that helps... and add a touch of reverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Classic Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 iv watched a fair amount of videos on youtube and decided i really need a marshall. and a better guitar. i got offered a 100w marshall valve amp not long ago for £250. but i really didnt have the money at the time but wish i did. so i had to let it pass. best get planning a les paul build then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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