Nic James Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 For those of you who love the acoustic guitar and consider anything but a traditional built one to be pure blasphemy I suggest you navigate away from this page quickly. That said lemmie get into the guitar stuff (thats what its all about right?) Ok so I have make one electric and am working on another one but now I'm starting an acoustic so I figured I'd post pictures along the way. As you may have figured out I'm not one for tradition so these are some of the things I plan to put into this guitar: - Double top (hollow top, sandwich top, whatever) - Offset soundhole - Sound port - Access panel - Stainless steel frets - A bolt on neck with skunk-stripes of carbon-fiber - An unbraced top with carbon-fiber rods supporting the bridge ( this one's really hard to conceptualize, I know, but hopefully I'll get some helpful pics up) - Mahogany top and neck with curly maple sides and stripe down back Now I know this seems like a lot but bear with me, I'm pretty confidant this'll all work. Here the wood I've got so far the cool mahogany for the top Here's the basic shape although I'm not happy with the bridge shape Alright so this is a good start and for anyone out there who thinks anythings is seriously flawed with my plan or has any questions then please post. Thanks - Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reantel Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Looks like you have a cool design going. It will be interesting to see how this one turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I would really recommend doing a standard soundhole for you first acoustic... you need to learn the basics of bracing and what not before you can figure out how to properly brace for the above design. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 For the carbon fiber skunk stripes, I take it those are going to be on the exterior for strength and asthetics? Not sure if you are aware or not, but carbon fiber is much tougher to cut than wood, so it won't sand or cut evenly with the wood, and it also dulls out edge tools a lot quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Interesting concept. How thick will the "double top" be? I have done sandwiching in a non guitar related way and it does make the part very stiff. It will be interesting to hear what the acoustics are like with this, with not much vibration in the top. I will keep an eye on this build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic James Posted June 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Hey thanks for the interest guys. verhoevenc, im not actually gonna brace the top (I know it sounds scary) but I am going to run support rods from the bridge to the sides (hard to explain but I'll get pics eventually) so no matter where the hole is I'll brace it the same. ihocky thanks for the concern but I'm well aware of the stubbornness of carbon fiber, I actually i did it on my electric as seen here Its not very hard using half inch wood and half inch carbon fiber jay, traditional double tops are supposed to be about the same thickness a regular guitar tops but this calls for both pieces of wood to be about veneer thickness which my planer can't do . Mine will instead be a little thicker than that but hopefully it'll still be about the same. As for the vibrationyness I was also very worried about this but the double top has been around for many years now and are used in some high end classical guitars so for the most part I trust them. What have you "sandwiched" if you don't mind me asking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 No offense... but that sounds like a horrible idea... the point of an acoustic is to have the bridge move the top... like a speaker. If you put struts to the sides from the bridge it will severely limit the bridge's movement and your guitar will be extremely quiet. Also, the sound that it DOES produce may end up being weird because the top will vibrate oddly because there are no braces on the top leaving large sections of thin wood open... acoustic builders tend to try and avoid these (ie: finger braces, tone bars, etc.) because you end up with wolf tones, etc. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Anything that is glued to the underside of the top is considered bracing. I dont think too may people have had success reinventing the acoustic guitar. Double tops, carbon fiber bodies, sound holes in weird spots all trying to reinvent the wheel. The most coveted guitars I think are just made of wood from a master builder. Until you have actually built an acoustic you have no reference to how yours will sound. Example if you cant tune the top or have no clue how to do it then most likely just adding some carbon braces in a random pattern to a top seems pointless. Even people reinventing the wheel will go through a trial and error process, building up many tops with different bracing patterns and hand tuning each to see what works best. What I have seen is thin carbon fiber sandwitched inbetween spruce as bracing so the spruce can still be tuned as you cannot easly shape carbon fiber like you can spruce. I wish you luck but I have my doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic James Posted June 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Hey chris I actually had your same exact concern about the braces dampening the top form vibrating. I have read up alot on acoustics and know that a top that can't vibrate is an awful start to a guitar. This fear was however laid to rest after seeing a breedlove guitar at my local guitar center. I we say that my braces from the bridge to the sides would be severely detrimental to sound than I assume that your saying any bracing from the bridge to the side would do the same. If this was true it would be very strange if a leading guitar company would use such a method. Here's a picture of the system used by breedlove It seams to me that my method of putting two rods from each side of the bridge to the bottom sides of the guitar isn't any worse than this method but I may be wrong. As for spoke I understand your concerns. I don't really have any way of knowing what this instrument is gonna sound like but in my defense the carbon fiber inside isn't really random and the carbon fiber sandwich bracing sounds like a good idea. hopefully my ideas will work and if not at least I tried. Also I just finished gluing the back so I thought I'd upload that Once again thanks for the posts, the more questions that are raised the more I'm forced to analyze my design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead28 Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 ihocky thanks for the concern but I'm well aware of the stubbornness of carbon fiber, I actually i did it on my electric as seen here Hey, speaking of that electric.... Did you ever finish that thing? I was very curious to see how it turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic James Posted June 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 hehe I actually never finished it which sucks because I think it'll be great but trying to mount pickups has really slowed me down. It'll get there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Nic I wish you luck. maybe you will come up with something interesting? But reality has it's own way of bursting the bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I figured you would bring up the breedlove thing. So I have prepared a response: 1) Take a breedlove and remove that thing... most people agree it sounds a HECK of a lot better. 2) One of the reasons breedlove uses that design is because they're building for the average consumer... a group of people who will take a guitar with light strings and through heavies on it without changing a thing, and who will also buy an expensive guitar and not keep it in it's case with a humidifier. So in THEIR grand scheme it's not a horrible idea because it helps their guitars hold up to the abuse of the average buyer. This also means they're not building to the woods potential either, hence point #1. 3) They ALSO have a series of other braces on the top, which I addressed the need for in my previous post. 4) They've built THOUSANDS of guitars previous to this design and therefore know how to make it work. On this train of thought I thought you might also bring up Steve Klein (go take a look at his bracing, he does something you might find interesting). But once again... this is a case of Steve Klein having reason, knowledge, and experience behind his decision. 5) Both the Klein and the Breedlove design still leave flexibility for movement. In the case of the Breedlove the major hindrance, in my opinion, isn't the actual brace... because let's face it an L shape like that is easy to push down on... but the weight the attachment adds to the top. I'm HOPING they have accounted for this weight in their other braces. Also, the same applies to the Klein bracing, it still leaves room for movement. HOWEVER, take some carbon fiber rods and make a triangle with the ends jammed into two corners and meeting at your hand... now try and push down. This is what you're creating when you send carbon fiber rods from your bridge to your sides (or your back... there it's even worse because the force is in line with the bars... and might even break through a thin back or deform it if it met with a back brace). Look at this for instance... this is kinda what you're talking about, but just with the neck block: Thats my friend David Myka's guitar... I have played it, and I even messed around with it when it was in the state it is in that picture... that is one HECK of a rigid structure... that neck block isn't going ANYWHERE! That neck block assembly will still be in perfect condition 300 years from now, after the rest of the guitar has been broken by time. I'm not tryna be an ass... but this ISN'T a good idea. I'm just tryna save you some heartache and wasted money/wood. Sometimes innovation is great... but when you have an idea and people are able to tell you straight up WHY it won't work... and even give you examples... it may be time to shift your imagination elsewhere. Or maybe even establish a working base of the rules so you know WHERE they can be broken Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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