Jump to content

Tele Bridge Pickup Conversion - Staggered To Flat Magnets


avdekan

Recommended Posts

NO! If we are talking about a traditional Tele pickup there is no way. The magnets are part of the structural construction of the pickup and the wire is wound directly on the magnets. If you remove a magnet the flanges might distort, the magnet wire might collapse into the void left by the magnets and you will for sure snag and rip off the magnet wire while reinserting the magnets. This is how a Tele bridge pickup is constructed:

5965_1lg.jpg

and the winding instructions might also help clarifying what I said:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_p...uctions#details

And on top of that Alnico is a very hard metal that doesn't lend itself to machining very well. It cant be cut with a hacksaw or similar. It need to grounded with diamond cutters or similar, and you need to cool it down with water at the same time. Now powering diamond blades with electrical motors and cooling with water at the same time is a recipe for disaster...

Now to the really interesting question: Why would anyone want to change a staggered pickup to a non staggered? Just changing the pole stager would turn a staggered pickup into a vintage sounding "52" pickup. There is more to that equation. And there are so may people that can make a good sounding non-staggered pickup for you.

Like me... :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you elaborate?

From What I know of telecaster bridge pickups, the plate is flat and the pole pieces vary in length. shortening the tall ones will remove some of the magnetic substance, but it will only make them similar to the outer magnets. am I missing something here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No...and why would you want too?

Real fender pickups are built from two plates for the bobbins held together by the magnetic poles with very fine wire wrapped around them. The magnets are a part of what holds them together. There's a fair bit of tension in a bobbin, especially on the insides and most likely wax sticking it together...

So...is there a risk...sure...most likely if you remove them you will never get them back if the structure doesn't fall apart anyway...removing them is likely to break the fine wires, but if not, once out the inner wire will be pushed in and you won't ever get them back.

I have heard of people attempting to simply push the magnets flat, say in a vice, but even there there is significant risk of breaking the vulnerable wires waxed to the magnets and bobbin.

Exceptions are potentially some cheaper copies that have bobbins molded with inner parts where the magnets are encased...but how will you know if this is the case, with a tele bridge pickup it's likely rare and this is a "cheap" way of making things so is the pickup worth doing this kind of thing to?

The other aspect is that magnets like alnico are very susceptible to demagnetizing with heat and vibration and the act of grinding and cutting...so even if you could get them out (which you likely cant) and you could get them back in (which is even less likely)...you are likely to severely damage the magnetism and have to have a way of re-magnetizing them again and matching them to the other poles...

Besides all this, if you are not aware even of how such pickups are constructed, and therefore ask such a question, I'd suggest that the likelihood of any success in such an enterprise to be...well, nil!

But again, why would you want to?

Edit SL beat me to it with pics...!

Edited by psw
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers!

The reason for the conversion it that I have a client who ordered a warmoth tele, and he had a set of texas special to put in it. only problem is that he had the neck made with a compound radius, which makes the bridge radi very flat, and the middle strings with noticeably higher output then the outer strings.

will taking a rough diamond stone (manually) to the magnets while still on the pickup work?

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might work, but you will have shards of magnetic material clinging to the pole pieces, a very rough surface and the magnets might chip and break. And you still need to cool the magnets with water and that will introduce water to the fiber material that the flanges is made of and fiber material and water have never been a good solution.

Hmm, the Texas Specials. A really nice Tele bridge pickup, but nothing impossible to recreate with flat (or custom) stagger. If you like I can make a custom pickup for your client that is a clone of the Texas Special sans staggered poles. Prices start at 70$. PM me if interested

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot that tele pickups have that base plate which is important to the sound and prohibits the 'pushing in" of the magnets to make them flat that I have heard of people doing with strat pickups.

I'd be taking SL's advice here and not attempting such a thing, maybe his offer to make a new one.

Alternatively, perhaps a radical angle of pickup adjustment might yield some good results without messing with it. If doing it as a paid thing, you are running a big risk of destroying the pickup and you will be taking it on yourself to be cutting it up.

I'd be seriously speaking to the client about options like selling the pickup and getting a new one like SL is offering that is just right, maybe better. If not and they get hacked, without the 'clients' permission, you'd be up for a new pickup and likely the cost too...plus damaging reputation and everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot that tele pickups have that base plate which is important to the sound and prohibits the 'pushing in" of the magnets to make them flat that I have heard of people doing with strat pickups.

I'd be taking SL's advice here and not attempting such a thing, maybe his offer to make a new one.

Alternatively, perhaps a radical angle of pickup adjustment might yield some good results without messing with it. If doing it as a paid thing, you are running a big risk of destroying the pickup and you will be taking it on yourself to be cutting it up.

I'd be seriously speaking to the client about options like selling the pickup and getting a new one like SL is offering that is just right, maybe better. If not and they get hacked, without the 'clients' permission, you'd be up for a new pickup and likely the cost too...plus damaging reputation and everything.

i dont think all tele pickups have a metal baseplate this is a pic of a US standard tele pickup which which has a plastic bobbin & no baseplate . i cant add a picture this wont allow a link from photobucket

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No...there are lots of variations, but a traditional fender bobbin is as shown in SL's post and the bobbins are made of fibreboard, so effectively paper. Also, the wire is enamel insulated and excessive heat from the grinding may well heat things up melt and short coils and probably damage the magnets as well.

If a pickup has a integral kind of "magnet" holders...say like a typical HB bobbin, you can remove magnets or more correctly slugs and screws as the wire is protected. Some single coils are made in a similar way but you would have to be sure that this is the case.

The metal plate under a tele bridge pickup does tend to be a part of the sound of traditionally built tele pickups, it does effect the 'shape' of the magnetic field

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No...there are lots of variations, but a traditional fender bobbin is as shown in SL's post and the bobbins are made of fibreboard, so effectively paper. Also, the wire is enamel insulated and excessive heat from the grinding may well heat things up melt and short coils and probably damage the magnets as well.

If a pickup has a integral kind of "magnet" holders...say like a typical HB bobbin, you can remove magnets or more correctly slugs and screws as the wire is protected. Some single coils are made in a similar way but you would have to be sure that this is the case.

The metal plate under a tele bridge pickup does tend to be a part of the sound of traditionally built tele pickups, it does effect the 'shape' of the magnetic field

sorry i didnt read down far enough texas specials got it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i dont think all tele pickups have a metal baseplate

No, there are several versions, including some for the cheaper Fender or Squire models, that have a molded plastic bobbin, pretty much like a HB bobbin, but of cause differently shaped. Can't find a good pic of one right now... The thing with those pickups are that the plastic surrounding the magnets add to the thickness of the pickup, altering the sound. If thats a good or bad thing, wel I leave that up to you. With this type of bobbins it is possible to push a magnet up or down for sure. Please make sure that you have a plastic bobbin before attempting to push the magnet up or down. Look for the mold line across the top of the bobbin. However these cheep pickups are often not equipped with magnet pole pieces. They have steel poles and a ceramic bar magnet underneath. And then its not possible to push the magnets up or down. On the other hand it is much easier to push a steel rod out and grind it ti the desired length. But in the end a Texas Special is not made with a plastic bobbin.

i cant add a picture this wont allow a link from photobucket

Its a bit tricky. Copy the "direct link" that is visible directly beneath the specific picture in the album mode (or whatever that is called) from Photobucket and paste that into the pop up, erasing the "HTTP//" thingy that is present when the pop up appears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i dont think all tele pickups have a metal baseplate

No, there are several versions, including some for the cheaper Fender or Squire models, that have a molded plastic bobbin, pretty much like a HB bobbin, but of cause differently shaped. Can't find a good pic of one right now... The thing with those pickups are that the plastic surrounding the magnets add to the thickness of the pickup, altering the sound. If thats a good or bad thing, wel I leave that up to you. With this type of bobbins it is possible to push a magnet up or down for sure. Please make sure that you have a plastic bobbin before attempting to push the magnet up or down. Look for the mold line across the top of the bobbin. However these cheep pickups are often not equipped with magnet pole pieces. They have steel poles and a ceramic bar magnet underneath. And then its not possible to push the magnets up or down. On the other hand it is much easier to push a steel rod out and grind it ti the desired length. But in the end a Texas Special is not made with a plastic bobbin.

i cant add a picture this wont allow a link from photobucket

Its a bit tricky. Copy the "direct link" that is visible directly beneath the specific picture in the album mode (or whatever that is called) from Photobucket and paste that into the pop up, erasing the "HTTP//" thingy that is present when the pop up appears.

heres a a ling to ebay

its a US tele just look at the 2 pictures

http://cgi.ebay.com/Telecaster-American-Br...=item415150a1b0

a couple years ago i built some strat pickups with stew mac flatwork and magnets the old vintage the magnets which they have a odd size & the 4 inner magnets were a little loose i did not superglue them in the assembly of the bobbin & you could move the magnets up or down without causing a short , i dont recemed trying this anytime sorry if i sounded like a nooby ...."i dont think all tele pickups have a metal baseplate" im not new to pickup winding

Link to comment
Share on other sites

im not new to pickup winding

Sorry if I sounded like I tried to lecture you, that was not my intention. I have a tendency to not being able to stop myself sometimes...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
im not new to pickup winding

Sorry if I sounded like I tried to lecture you, that was not my intention. I have a tendency to not being able to stop myself sometimes...

you are a real asset here SwedishLuthier i love building guitars but this year im too busy building pickups , any time you can put me in my place haha cheers man :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...