guitar2005 Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) On my next finishing job, I really want to try waterbased finishes. Nitro is great but the fumes and volatility are a big minus for me, especially in the winter time because I can't spray indoors. What are your opinions on the Stewmac water based "lacquer" vs the KTM-9 finish? Is KTM-9 worth the extra money? Does it apply the way way? Is it tintable the same way? Edited December 14, 2010 by guitar2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DogNate Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) Can't speak for any of those... but I just tried out Target EM-6000 and it worked like a charm... It doesn't apply quite the same as nitro. You have to use waterborne techniques that are unique to waterbornes... keep the coats thin and thinner. If you lay down very wet coats youll develop a milky look... keep them thin and build up gradually and it'll be water clear. It is tintable. You can use trans tints for the translucent finishes... Stew Mac Sells tints and opaques for waterbornes also. This guitar was finished in EM-6000 the back was EM-6000 with Stew Mac Black opaque added the top is just clear on a red dyed top. Edited December 14, 2010 by 3DogNate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted December 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 (edited) Very nice. Did you use a tint in the clear or was that a stain? It looks like a tint to me. I want to do a black finish and I was thinking of using Stewmac's pigments. I'll definitely look into the EM-6000 product. Looks very interesting and is cheaper than the KTM stuff but I'd really like other people's opinions before I go for it. Edited December 15, 2010 by guitar2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kammo1 Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Dude that is an absolutely killer guitar there and the finish looks amazing. I have not had much luck with waterbased finishes but it must be my old school techinique that keeps kicking in and messing things up I think if I was to try the waterbased stuff I would definately apply a polyester clear basecoat for the rock hardness and then the waterbased clear for topcoats to give it the gloss and the durability. I also found that nozzle size is the key to waterbased finishes and I was informed a minimum of 1.8mm is needed ? maybe you can fill me in on what you used as this might be where I mess up. Got to admit I would love to switch to waterbased stuff to do my bit for the planet as polyesters and polyurethanes are not very environmentally friendly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 I have used KTM-9 with as small as .5 mm (that took a while) and had great results. You do have to treat it a bit differently than Nitro - because they are quite a bit different. Was it worth it? For the reasons you state - yes. I can finish guitars, necks, other projects quite safely in the basement with the strongest fumes being the denatured alcohol used to clean out the gun between coats. I have tried shooting with and without wiping down between each coat with denatured alcohol and wiping down is definitely recommended. It does seem to get a little harder over time as well - initially kinda soft, but so are many other finishes. Also noted that it accepts water-based dyes (even food color) quite well. As an experiment, I mixed a few drops of Fascolor in a batch for a nice haze of color. Hope this answers some of your questions. Otherwise, once it's on there (15-20 coats at least) it polishes up like anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted December 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 What is so different in spraying the watebased stuff? Is it that I would need a different tip? I don't even know what I have on my spraying gun now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 Not so much tip size as flow adjustments. The water-based stuff flows differently than solvent based (usually because of the fact that water is heavier than some solvents, esp. in aerosol form). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DogNate Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 Not so much tip size as flow adjustments. The water-based stuff flows differently than solvent based (usually because of the fact that water is heavier than some solvents, esp. in aerosol form). And the gloss doesn't "really" have a gloss until it's been leveled and polished. (Unlike Nitro, Polyester, 2k Urethane which under all the right conditions can 98% ready to go out the door off the gun.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 FYI - I learned that the StewMac lacquer is made by Target Coatings and is based on their EM6000 finish with slight formulation differences. I think I'll be trying the EM6000 product as I can order it from within Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFly Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 With water based polys, I've heard that it comes out milky, but dries clear... true? false? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 KTM looks like milk in the can/gun but shoots/dry clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Ross Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Target's 6000 and 9000 stuff is milky in the can and dries clear if you lay down thin coats. Put it on too thick, and you'll have a nasty blue haze (ask me how I know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DogNate Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Target's 6000 and 9000 stuff is milky in the can and dries clear if you lay down thin coats. Put it on too thick, and you'll have a nasty blue haze (ask me how I know). Yes keep it thin with many coats... or it'll look like **** for sure. Keep it thin and it'll look as good as anything can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Put it on too thick, and you'll have a nasty blue haze (ask me how I know). +1 on the Stewmac waterbase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 How many coats of the EM6000 should I spray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 How many coats of the EM6000 should I spray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supplebanana Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 thx for the info - just got me some KTM-9 thought it was strange being milky!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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