82cabby Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi all! I have what I hope is a simple rookie question. I have made a maple neck with a maple fingerboard. I am going to lacquer the whole neck, but I am wondering what tasks I need to do first and what I should leave until the finish is on. Most importantly, what part of the fret shaping, leveling, end dressing, etc should I do before and what part after the lacquer goes on? Thanks in advance for any advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Do everything before,then just scrap the finish off the frets carefully with a razor blade and do a final polish...I use a dremel with a buffing pad and that red polishing compound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82cabby Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Do everything before,then just scrap the finish off the frets carefully with a razor blade and do a final polish...I use a dremel with a buffing pad and that red polishing compound Thanks for the reply. Should I worry about the filing dust embedding itself in the maple? I can tape off the fretboard between the frets, but not really the side or the neck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Do everything before,then just scrap the finish off the frets carefully with a razor blade and do a final polish...I use a dremel with a buffing pad and that red polishing compound Thanks for the reply. Should I worry about the filing dust embedding itself in the maple? I can tape off the fretboard between the frets, but not really the side or the neck... Im not sure we're on the same page here... It's the same as anything else really. You put your neck together. Finish sand it. Laquer it or oil it. Repeat that step a few times, let it cure. That said, wetsanding a fret board has to be a MAJOR pain in the arse lol. Have you thought about tung oil? Get 99% of the protection and beauty without the mess of the paint on the frets lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82cabby Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks for your help. I'm getting close to done with this guitar and don't want to screw up now. Have to admit I have not thought of tung oil... The body is going to be clear lacquer over a burst, do you think a tung oiled neck would look right? As for the initial question... I was just asking at what stage in the finishing process do I dress the fret ends, level the frets, etc? I am worried about getting the raw maple neck and finger board grimy, but at the same time don't want to screw up a nice finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 do you think a tung oiled neck would look right? No.They get way too dirty way too quick IMO. But that is just my "o"pinion Thanks for the reply. Should I worry about the filing dust embedding itself in the maple? I can tape off the fretboard between the frets, but not really the side or the neck... Tape everything.Taping the side of the neck is easy Look...You can tape off the entire fretboard before finishing,then do your finish on the rest of the guitar.After you have the entire guitar level sanded you take the tape off the fretboard and you put a final coat over the entire guitar,fretboard included.you don't want to "wetsand" the fretboard,or at least I don't.Just spray it right and then you will have a thin coat on the fretboard(which is all you want)and as thick as you want everywhere else. Then you tape the board and neck around the frets and do your scraping and polishing of the frets....then remove the tape and when you do the final buff of the guitar you buff the fretboard...frets and all,with your buffer and buffing compounds. The first one I did i got the finish way too thick on the fretboard because I did not tape it off...big mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 do you think a tung oiled neck would look right? No.They get way too dirty way too quick IMO. But that is just my "o"pinion Thanks for the reply. Should I worry about the filing dust embedding itself in the maple? I can tape off the fretboard between the frets, but not really the side or the neck... Tape everything.Taping the side of the neck is easy Look...You can tape off the entire fretboard before finishing,then do your finish on the rest of the guitar.After you have the entire guitar level sanded you take the tape off the fretboard and you put a final coat over the entire guitar,fretboard included.you don't want to "wetsand" the fretboard,or at least I don't.Just spray it right and then you will have a thin coat on the fretboard(which is all you want)and as thick as you want everywhere else. Then you tape the board and neck around the frets and do your scraping and polishing of the frets....then remove the tape and when you do the final buff of the guitar you buff the fretboard...frets and all,with your buffer and buffing compounds. The first one I did i got the finish way too thick on the fretboard because I did not tape it off...big mistake Tung oil is as good as you work it. If you buy cheap "Tung oil product", your results will of course be "Cheap". I have some OLD ibanez necks that were tung oiled in the mid 80s that still look pretty darn good. Ive never been a fan of painted necks, so I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree and focus on technique lol. You will do all your fret work before painting. Doesnt make a whole lotta sense to paint then do more fret work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'll be glad to see some work of yours to see if you're as good as you want your advice to be..asking advice on simple things one thread and dishing out expertise in another,talking about wet sanding a fretboard,mahogany tone blocks and swimming pool routs...I can't hardly stand the wait.. By the way,he did not ask about tung oil,he asked about finishing,so maybe he does not share your prejudice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I'll be glad to see some work of yours to see if you're as good as you want your advice to be..asking advice on simple things one thread and dishing out expertise in another,talking about wet sanding a fretboard,mahogany tone blocks and swimming pool routs...I can't hardly stand the wait.. By the way,he did not ask about tung oil,he asked about finishing,so maybe he does not share your prejudice? Not sure why you decided to make this personal... My work? Theres a reason companies like ibanez, charvel, music man, warrior, etc use tung oil to finish their necks... Tung oil dries harder then any laquer, and it penetrates deeper and provides more protection. Not my fault if you've never ventured that route.... What a properly oiled neck looks like As far as the "Tone block"/"swimming pool route" is concerned, other members suggested putting a block of wood in to get a proper route. If I were to do that, Id put in a block of mahogany, akin to high end music man guitars. However; since its a squier (not a high dollar machine), I will pass. Again, if you've never heard/seen it, then that's not my fault. That said, I highly respect your guitars, and you do fantastic work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82cabby Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Umm.....well.... That said, I think I am going to stick with the clear lacquer finish since I already have the most of the materials. My question arose from the fact that the two books I am working from (Hiscock and Koch) aren't real specific about the order of leveling, finishing and dressing. I'm going to go with: tape everything but the frets, do all the fret work, remove the tape and do a final sand on the neck (bolt on by the way), tape off fingerboard , spray clear lacquer (bunch of coats), unmask fingerboard and spray one or two more. Sound right? Sorry for the rookie questions but this is only the third neck I've made and the first maple neck/ maple fingerboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Not sure why you decided to make this personal... I am not...I just want everyone to be honest about the potential pitfalls of offhand advice...from Warmoth's website To Finish or Not to Finish? All our necks are dipped in an oil based penetrating sealer which is compatible with virtually all secondary finishes. This provides enhanced stability; however, it is not adequate protection for playing. We strongly recommend you apply a hard finish to all Maple, Mahogany, and Koa necks. Oils do not validate our warranty requirements. We understand the attraction of raw or lightly oiled necks. They feel fast and are not sticky. Unfortunately, they are much more susceptible to moisture related warping and twisting. Our experience is that hard finished necks seldom warp. Less than 1 out of 200 (0.5%) are returned for warpage. Raw or oiled necks don't fare as well. About 10% are rendered useless from the torture. The more acidic your perspiration, the higher the odds are against you. If you must play a raw neck, that's cool; it's ok. A neck is just a tool. Just be aware of the risk. If yours does the pretzel act, we don't want to hear about it. For a valid warranty, a hard finish must be sufficiently thick to completely cover the wood. That means no wood is exposed and you are actually playing on the finish, not the wood. Now, it does not matter to us who applies the finish. Of course we would like to do the finish for you, but if you choose to do it yourself or have it done elsewhere the warranty is still valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I'm going to go with: tape everything but the frets, do all the fret work, remove the tape and do a final sand on the neck (bolt on by the way), tape off fingerboard , spray clear lacquer (bunch of coats), unmask fingerboard and spray one or two more. Sound right? Sure,man.just be aware that practice obviously makes perfect,and there is a large chance that no matter which way you go,there are many issues to overcome...and it is sooooo impossible to cover it all on a guitar forum. If you feel you want to make guitar building a major hobby,check out the book "Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner..it will take the myth out of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Tung oil dries harder then any laquer I am sorry,you are misinformed...I have used pure tung oil and keep it on hand but rarely find a use for it.I would really like for you to understand for your own benefit I really am trying to inform,not admonish or "become personal",but my way of communicating is rather brusque,so allow me to just post a couple of pics of pages from the book I mentioned hope this helps.It is always good to have a nice reference to draw from,and I think Flexner's book is widely regarded as one of the best.Available at Amazon(added in hopes that Mr.Flexner may not mind me posting photos of his book) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 As far as the "Tone block"/"swimming pool route" is concerned, other members suggested putting a block of wood in to get a proper route. If I were to do that, Id put in a block of mahogany, akin to high end music man guitars. However; since its a squier (not a high dollar machine), I will pass. Again, if you've never heard/seen it, then that's not my fault. "tone block" must extend under the bridge to be effective at all,but really IMO it's just a way to charge more money for a mostly basswood guitar.Not only seen it and heard it,but tried it and was less than impressed. There are a lot of catch phrases and monikers used in guitar mythology by manufacturers to sell product.All they have to do is convince you it's special and they can charge extra for it.I like mahogany very much,and it's not heavy enough to warrant replacing most of it with basswood to "be lighter" IMO But really,all that is just an opinion on my part.That obviously you can take or leave,there is no hard evidence to support either theory,unlike the tung oil thing That said, I highly respect your guitars, and you do fantastic work. Thank you,but if you saw all of the mistakes I make you might be less impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm going to go with: tape everything but the frets, do all the fret work, remove the tape and do a final sand on the neck (bolt on by the way), tape off fingerboard , spray clear lacquer (bunch of coats), unmask fingerboard and spray one or two more. Sound right? Sorry for the rookie questions but this is only the third neck I've made and the first maple neck/ maple fingerboard. Make sure you finish sand a maple neck to 180 grit only. Maple is so close pored that if it's much higher than 180 you may run into finish adhesion problems during the finishing process or over time. Mainly if you ever need to do a re-fret or anything that requires you to tape the fingerboard or neck, if it has bad adhesion you will just pull the lacquer right off with the tape. If you go the route of taping during the finishing process use the blue painters tape and stick to the table and lift it off a few times to make its stick a little weaker... Better safe than sorry trust me, been there done that, not fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Theres a reason companies like ibanez, charvel, music man, warrior, etc use tung oil to finish their necks... Tung oil dries harder then any laquer, and it penetrates deeper and provides more protection. Not my fault if you've never ventured that route.... Please don't take this as trying to start a flame war or personal attack, I just want to add clarification and information for any future readers of this thread. Of the companies named, they only use 100% tung oil as a finish on custom guitars, and even then some will not use it because it provides almost no moisture protection. Their standard line of guitars with "Oil finish" necks fall into one of two categories: either oil finish or a polymerized oil. Oil finish is not tung oil, it is usually a varnish that has been thinned with tung or linseed oil. If you open a can of tung oil and smell any kind of solvent or polyurethane smell, it is a tung oil finish. Tung oil has a sweet, kind of nutty smell. Tung oil does not, and will not dry to a gloss finish. If you leave the lid off a can of tung oil finish it will skin over and the rest will remain liquid. With 100% tung oil it will absorb any oxygen in the air and begin to cure, if you put the lid on a bottle of it without squeezing out all of the air, you will come back to a bottle that has turned white and become semi-solid. I use 100% tung oil a lot on plaques and display pieces for the warmth and natural tones it brings out, but it will never acheive any kind of reasonable film thickness nor be polished to a high gloss. Polymerized oil is an oil finish with chemical hardeners if I remember correctly. I know that it is different from a standard oil it that it will dry hard and will build up a glossy film. This is the most common "Oil Finish" on guitar necks. Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil is a common brand. Polymerized oils though tend to be more expensive. Wes mentioned Bob Flexner's book. I cannot recommend that book strongly enough. It is very thorough and puts a lots of myths to rest. It is easy to read and understand while giving more information about various finishes than you would realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yup, me and wes have been pm'ing going over this stuff. Thank you for the info though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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