Original Edge tremolo on Ibanez S270 Korean

[Guillen]

hello.....here my Ibanez S270 Korean ..... with Saymour duncan pick ups SH-2N Jazz Model white on Neck, SCR-1N Cool Rails for strat White in the midle, and SH-4 JB model White on Bridge......

I wanted to mount the Schaller Bridge but being the 12 inch Radio I decided to mount an Original Edge tremolo the one Steve Vai uses in his JEM so if you can tell me about this bridge, what material is made, where to get it original at good cost even Used, and if anyone has experience doing this adaptation .... greetings

[curtisa]

Moved to the Tech Area -> Solidbody Guitar and Bass Chat for better housekeeping.

[curtisa]

The SLT101 trem on that model has a slightly different cavity shape compared to the Edge, but it appears that it can be done with some changes to the outline of the cavities:

http://www.jemsite.com/forums/967443-post2.html

Other anecdotal evidence suggests that the Gotoh double-locking trem is a drop-in replacement that requires no additonal work.

Used Edges turn up on eBay from time to time.

If it were me, I'd want to be absolutely certain that it was worth going ahead with though. You need to check the post spacing is the same on the trem you're replacing it with, and any changes to the cavity shape will require access to tools and skills that may be worth more than the cost of the instrument, Also factor in refinishing where the cavities are re-shaped if appearance is important to you.

[Guillen]

11 hours ago, curtisa said:

The SLT101 trem on that model has a slightly different cavity shape compared to the Edge, but it appears that it can be done with some changes to the outline of the cavities:

http://www.jemsite.com/forums/967443-post2.html

Other anecdotal evidence suggests that the Gotoh double-locking trem is a drop-in replacement that requires no additonal work.

Used Edges turn up on eBay from time to time.

If it were me, I'd want to be absolutely certain that it was worth going ahead with though. You need to check the post spacing is the same on the trem you're replacing it with, and any changes to the cavity shape will require access to tools and skills that may be worth more than the cost of the instrument, Also factor in refinishing where the cavities are re-shaped if appearance is important to you.

good point.....i want to do is some thing that can make better sound and inprove my guitar.....like you can see the black one with the pickups white is.....

[10pizza]

I have an original Edge waiting to be installed in one of my projects. If you want me to measure some stuff just ask.

They do show up on ebay etc., but usually quite expensive......

[Guillen]

40 minutes ago, 10pizza said:

I have an original Edge waiting to be installed in one of my projects. If you want me to measure some stuff just ask.

They do show up on ebay etc., but usually quite expensive......

Sure please .... I want the steps you can do the project, please .... I want to know how to adapt it in my Ibanez S270 I think it is 400 mm 16 inch radius......so please all you can do please....video all

[10pizza]

not sure what you're asking here. video what?

 

have you checked out this page: http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/Edge

it's got some specs and drawings as well that can help you out maybe.

 

[Guillen]

[Guillen]

46 minutes ago, 10pizza said:

not sure what you're asking here. video what?

 

have you checked out this page: http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/Edge

it's got some specs and drawings as well that can help you out maybe.

 

thanks please check the photo.....i want to inprove my bridge.....and want to make it with a good one......

[curtisa]

I don't think you're going to find a tutorial specifically describing how to achieve what you want. The cavities appear to be different enough to require some degree of woodworking. A secondhand Edge trem seems to be in the vicinity of $150 - $250. They're usually pulled from scrapped guitars, so their condition may be less than ideal. That alone may be worth more than the value of the S270 on the secondhand market.

You need to decide if you have the tools and skills to pull this off successfully, or are willing to pay someone to do the work for you. The risk by having this modification performed, and it not going well, is that you end up with a guitar that is unplayable, several hundred dollars out of pocket and a guitar that is worth nothing if you try to resell it.

Have a closer look at the Wiki page 10Pizza linked to. It has the installation manual for the Edge trem including some critical measurements for the bridge - the post spacing, the size and shape of the spring cavity.

My understanding is that the STR101 is similar in size and shape to the Lo TRS or Lo TRS2. Information on the web suggests that the Original Floyd Rose will drop straight into the Lo TRS cavity with no rework required, and hence may be a direct replacement for your STR101. The German-made OFR (or the licensed unit made by Schaller) is a fine double-locking bridge with a radius of 10" or 12" (by removing a shim of metal under the middle 4 saddles), which will probably be close enough to match your 16" radius neck to get away with. Alternatively the Gotoh GE1996T is supposedly a drop-in replacement with a 14" radius. Both are less than $200 new.

Have you considered just replacing the saddles with Floyd Rose originals? They may fit and will be a lot easier and cheaper than retrofitting the whole Edge trem.

Measure your trem very carefully and compare with the measurements of the Gotoh GE199T or the Floyd Rose Original. Someone here may be able to provide you with measurements of the Edge to compare with as well.

[10pizza]

hi @Guillen , somehow I didn't see the pictures before.

looks like your trem is heavily corroded. Next to that it isn't one of the best designs to start with possibly. here's a link to another page  http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/SLT101

I agree with @curtisa here. Given the value of the guitar and the cost/work to fit an edge trem I'd advise to look at trems that have similar measurements and can be dropped in with no extra work required.

question is: what are you looking to achieve?

If you want to experiment on modding a guitar and don't mind spending some money then you can go for it. My advice would be to first get your hands on an edge or similar trem so you can see exactly how it will fit. You probably will need to install new studs for the anchors which may require filling up the existing studholes first. Possibly you'll need to do some routing as well to allow for a good floating setup. 

If you just want to improve the guitar with a better bridge/trem. Have a look at the trems Curtisa mentioned or alternatively look for a used Ibanez RG or S model with a better trem as advised as well in your thread over at Seymour Duncan: http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?322464-Original-Edge-tremolo-on-Ibanez-S270-Korean

 

 

[Guillen]

16 hours ago, curtisa said:

I don't think you're going to find a tutorial specifically describing how to achieve what you want. The cavities appear to be different enough to require some degree of woodworking. A secondhand Edge trem seems to be in the vicinity of $150 - $250. They're usually pulled from scrapped guitars, so their condition may be less than ideal. That alone may be worth more than the value of the S270 on the secondhand market.

You need to decide if you have the tools and skills to pull this off successfully, or are willing to pay someone to do the work for you. The risk by having this modification performed, and it not going well, is that you end up with a guitar that is unplayable, several hundred dollars out of pocket and a guitar that is worth nothing if you try to resell it.

Have a closer look at the Wiki page 10Pizza linked to. It has the installation manual for the Edge trem including some critical measurements for the bridge - the post spacing, the size and shape of the spring cavity.

My understanding is that the STR101 is similar in size and shape to the Lo TRS or Lo TRS2. Information on the web suggests that the Original Floyd Rose will drop straight into the Lo TRS cavity with no rework required, and hence may be a direct replacement for your STR101. The German-made OFR (or the licensed unit made by Schaller) is a fine double-locking bridge with a radius of 10" or 12" (by removing a shim of metal under the middle 4 saddles), which will probably be close enough to match your 16" radius neck to get away with. Alternatively the Gotoh GE1996T is supposedly a drop-in replacement with a 14" radius. Both are less than $200 new.

Have you considered just replacing the saddles with Floyd Rose originals? They may fit and will be a lot easier and cheaper than retrofitting the whole Edge trem.

Measure your trem very carefully and compare with the measurements of the Gotoh GE199T or the Floyd Rose Original. Someone here may be able to provide you with measurements of the Edge to compare with as well.

excellent information well ¿if i change the saddles and the bras? i was thinking in a Schaller https://www.allparts.com/SB-0290-003-Schaller-Floyd-Rose-Locking-Tremolo_p_3254.html  but cause the 12" radius i change my mine but wiht this idea can be done

[Guillen]

8 hours ago, 10pizza said:

hi @Guillen , somehow I didn't see the pictures before.

looks like your trem is heavily corroded. Next to that it isn't one of the best designs to start with possibly. here's a link to another page  http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/SLT101

I agree with @curtisa here. Given the value of the guitar and the cost/work to fit an edge trem I'd advise to look at trems that have similar measurements and can be dropped in with no extra work required.

question is: what are you looking to achieve?

If you want to experiment on modding a guitar and don't mind spending some money then you can go for it. My advice would be to first get your hands on an edge or similar trem so you can see exactly how it will fit. You probably will need to install new studs for the anchors which may require filling up the existing studholes first. Possibly you'll need to do some routing as well to allow for a good floating setup. 

If you just want to improve the guitar with a better bridge/trem. Have a look at the trems Curtisa mentioned or alternatively look for a used Ibanez RG or S model with a better trem as advised as well in your thread over at Seymour Duncan: http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?322464-Original-Edge-tremolo-on-Ibanez-S270-Korean

 

 

yes I want to make a modification that serves to raise this guitar level, I want to know what you think if i change the Saddles for a double locking one and the bras block

[10pizza]

just a change to a double locking trem and a new top lock would already be a great improvement. Brass block is optional. Don't use them myself yet, happy with the standard blocks on my Floyds.

good luck finding a proper quality replacement for the trem. Looks like you've got some good input here to look for a proper unit.

 

 

[Guillen]

5 minutes ago, 10pizza said:

just a change to a double locking trem and a new top lock would already be a great improvement. Brass block is optional. Don't use them myself yet, happy with the standard blocks on my Floyds.

good luck finding a proper quality replacement for the trem. Looks like you've got some good input here to look for a proper unit.

 

 

yes I appreciate much the help that is provided to me, I will continue to post the works and the improvements to be able to help others who want to do it.....now the question is wish tremole use for this......jejejejej

[curtisa]

6 hours ago, Guillen said:

excellent information well ¿if i change the saddles and the bras? i was thinking in a Schaller https://www.allparts.com/SB-0290-003-Schaller-Floyd-Rose-Locking-Tremolo_p_3254.html  but cause the 12" radius i change my mine but wiht this idea can be done

Measure the length of the block in your existing trem before you place an order. The Ibanez S body is quite thin and may require a block that is shorter than normal. I think the standard block length on the Floyd Rose is 37mm, but you can also get them with 32mm blocks.

It should be possible to customise the radius of the bridge by shimming with thin strips of metal underneath the saddles. Shimming the E, A, B and E saddles up by 0.15mm will give you an approximation of a 16" radius with a set of OFR saddles designed for 12" radius.

The nuts can also be ordered with different sizes and radii, so consider that if you're also looking to replace the nut on your guitar. Floyd Rose have a chart of their nut sizes here.

[Guillen]

10 minutes ago, curtisa said:

Measure the length of the block in your existing trem before you place an order. The Ibanez S body is quite thin and may require a block that is shorter than normal. I think the standard block length on the Floyd Rose is 37mm, but you can also get them with 32mm blocks.

It should be possible to customise the radius of the bridge by shimming with thin strips of metal underneath the saddles. Shimming the E, A, B and E saddles up by 0.15mm will give you an approximation of a 16" radius with a set of OFR saddles designed for 12" radius.

The nuts can also be ordered with different sizes and radii, so consider that if you're also looking to replace the nut on your guitar. Floyd Rose have a chart of their nut sizes here.

this is very helpfull  for me since I really like this bridge Schaller but I had discarded it because my luthier spoke to me about the problem of the 12-inch radius and my neck of 16 inch...can you explain me very well with pictures the thing about saddles and nuts change...cause this Schaller come with all....

[curtisa]

The Schaller drawing for their OFR says that the two E saddles are 7.4mm high, the A and B saddles are 7.9mm high and the D/G saddles 8.4mm. If you draw a circle through the tops of the saddles given that they are spaced at 10.8mm apart, the resulting radius is 320mm, (about 12"). If the outer saddles are raised slightly, the radius of the circle becomes bigger. Raising the outer two saddles by 0.15mm makes the circle radius 412mm (16.2").

In the picture below, the little white crosses indicate the tops of each of the six saddles on the standard Floyd Rose trem. The green curve is the resulting 12" radius that passes through the tops of the saddles. The red dashed curve is the 16" radius created if the 1st, 2nd 5th and 6th saddles are raised in height by 0.15mm:

 

The radius of the nut cannot be changed, so you must pick the right one to suit your neck. The length, width, height and string spacing of the nut will also limit your options. If your neck is 16" radius, the #10 nut in that chart appears to be close enough to work (15" radius), but only if the other dimensions of this nut are a close match to your existing nut, so compare the measurements of your nut with those listed in the chart.

The #3 nut may also be close enough to work (12" radius), but you may notice a change in feel in the lower frets. I personally wouldn't use any of the other nuts as the difference between a 10" radius nut and a 16" neck is too much and will cause significant intonation and playability issues.

Alternatively if your existing nut is still OK, you can always leave it in place and just change out the bridge.

[Guillen]

16 hours ago, curtisa said:

The Schaller drawing for their OFR says that the two E saddles are 7.4mm high, the A and B saddles are 7.9mm high and the D/G saddles 8.4mm. If you draw a circle through the tops of the saddles given that they are spaced at 10.8mm apart, the resulting radius is 320mm, (about 12"). If the outer saddles are raised slightly, the radius of the circle becomes bigger. Raising the outer two saddles by 0.15mm makes the circle radius 412mm (16.2").

In the picture below, the little white crosses indicate the tops of each of the six saddles on the standard Floyd Rose trem. The green curve is the resulting 12" radius that passes through the tops of the saddles. The red dashed curve is the 16" radius created if the 1st, 2nd 5th and 6th saddles are raised in height by 0.15mm:

 

The radius of the nut cannot be changed, so you must pick the right one to suit your neck. The length, width, height and string spacing of the nut will also limit your options. If your neck is 16" radius, the #10 nut in that chart appears to be close enough to work (15" radius), but only if the other dimensions of this nut are a close match to your existing nut, so compare the measurements of your nut with those listed in the chart.

The #3 nut may also be close enough to work (12" radius), but you may notice a change in feel in the lower frets. I personally wouldn't use any of the other nuts as the difference between a 10" radius nut and a 16" neck is too much and will cause significant intonation and playability issues.

Alternatively if your existing nut is still OK, you can always leave it in place and just change out the bridge.

wao good good yehhhhh......is a very helpfull information if there is more please go a head

[Guillen]

i found this on a Schaller website

Our long-term experience with the production of Double locking tremolos has gone into the development of this identical tremolo. Exchangeable knife edges made of hardened steel and cast steel saddles, combined with a solid tremolo block provide perfect sound transmission and an extremely long sustain. Also available as lefthand version. The tremolo radius is 12", the radius of the nut element is 10" for the R2- or R3-Nut (see under Guidelines).

• All tremolo systems are supplied complete with nut (please choose R1-R10, see under "guidelines") (standard: R2), string retainers, springs, height adjustment screws, Allen wrench and mounting accessories.
• We supply tremolo blocks in heights of 32, 37 and 42mm. (standard: 42mm)
• When ordering, please specify the required block length and nut.
• with reinforced inlays
• Radius 12"

Special studs with additional inserts are used to mount the tremolo onto the instrument. The inserts have a fine thread. We also supply studs with threads which enable the studs to be specify screwed into the wood body of the instrument directly, i.e. without inserts.

For the sake of simplicity, only the right-handed versions of our products are shown in the product images.

The dimensions of our Schaller Tremolo are exactly the same as the dimensions of both the Floyd Rose Tremolo and our LockMeister Tremolo. You can easily replace your Floyd Rose Tremolo or your LockMeister Tremolo with a Schaller Tremolo.
This also applies to all replacement parts!

String lock inserts

The back of the string lock inserts is numbered with 0,1 and 2.

• 0 is for the D and G strings,
• 1 is for the A and B strings and the number
• 2 is for both E strings.

[Guillen]

https://www.schaller-electronic.com/hp761159/Schaller-Tremolo-right.htm

[Guillen]

https://www.schaller-electronic.com/hp761159/Schaller-Tremolo-right.htm

 

Neck type	Years	Scale length	Width at nut	Width at last fret	Thickness at 1st fret	Thickness at 12th fret	Radius
Wizard II	1997–2002	648mm/ 25.5"	43mm	56mm	19mm	21mm	400mmR/ 15.75"
	2004	648mm/ 25.5"	43mm	56mm	19mm	21mm	430mmR
	2005–2009	648mm/ 25.5"	43mm	56mm	19mm	21mm	400mmR/ 15.75"
	2010	648mm/ 25.5"	43mm	58mm	19mm	21mm	400mmR/ 15.75"

[Guillen]

some body talled me this in other forum....

 

[Guillen]

Originally Posted by Obsessive Compulsive 

Go for it dude. Butch the hell out of that sucker. I think everybody should embrace the original Edge, the most stable, toughest looking, smoothest feeling tremolo ever made.

Don't worry too much about milimeters. It should fit any guitar with modern flat radius. Take it from me, an actual convert...ha...ha.. I've done it to my 90s USA superstrat. What you should worry about is the scale length cause it will affect intonation.

And don't go half ass. Why go for the Edge Zero (ii, iii, iv, whatever), if you are going to hack the hell out of that guitar anyway. Get the best, the original!

In the photo below you can see the old holes (now covered with dowels) where the old one used to sit in. 

[curtisa]

I personally don't think that is a good comparison to your situation. Like I said earlier, you need to weigh up the cost of installing an Edge into a low-cost instrument not designed to have it installed, against all the potential issues that you may come up against in the process:

1. Do you have the tools and experience to do this yourself (extra risk)?
2. If not, do you have the money to pay for someone to do this for you (extra cost)?
3. What if the installation goes badly and your guitar is left unplayable or disfigured? Can you recover the instrument if that happens (sentimental value)?

If you're happy to take the risk on the guitar, then it's entirely down to you to make it happen which ever way you see fit.

However, if any of the above points makes the job unattractive to you, can you achieve what you want by other means:

1. Can you retrofit a different bridge that doesn't require large amounts of work in its place? - Probably (as per the discussion on installing a Gotoh, Schaller or Original Floyd Rose bridge).
2. Can you retrofit locking saddles from another bridge in place of the existing saddles? - Possibly (requires some investigation by you).

If the above points still makes you cautious about modifying the guitar, then you need to ask:

1. Is the guitar worth modifying to that degree, either based on the money required or if the instrument is special to you?
2. Would the money be better spent on a different instrument that does what you want it to without requiring modification?