GuitarMaestro Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hi! I routed the cavities for a fingerboard in order to inlay precut MOP sharkfins I already bought. After much practice and very careful work I router all the cavities with nice precision. However it is not possible to do it 100% accurate as most of you surely made the expirience. I have kept all the sawdust during routing in a little box in order to use it as filler later. If I fill all little gaps arround the inlays with the saw dust, you are not able to realize that they are there at all. In fact it would even be impossible with a magnyfing glass. Now my question: If I mix my saw dust with epoxy and fill in the little gaps, will the still stay as invisible as without the epoxy or will the epoxy make the difference of real wood vs. saw dust obvious? Thanks in advance, Marcel Knapp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renablistic Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Not 100% sure, but it shouldn't. Epoxy dries clear, so as long as you have enough dust in there it should be fine. Just try this: If you still have a piece of whatever wood you used for the fingerboard left over route a smal hole, and fill it with the epoxy/dust mixture. Then you'll know what it'll look like. if you don't have a spare piece, then wait for someone like Clavin or LGM to answere your question. They'll know for 100% sure. Buit then again, they're so good that they probably don't have any holes they need to fill in around their inlays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Thanks renablistic....trying it on scrap wood first is certainly a good idea, but I am still interested what the pro's have to say.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I don't like using the dust if the space is to big, it darkens with the epoxy, it will pretty much dissappear when the board is oiled though. If your gaps are really big you're further ahead to cut some fillers out of rosewood and inlay them back in with the inlay, just pay close attention to the direction of grain. But in all reality, once the board is oiled, you'd have to look pretty close. Wanna see bad inlays with lots of filler, look at a factory inlay in an Ibanez with a vine or pyramids, or any jackson with sharkfins, they suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 @LGM: Thanks for the information. My inlay cavities are pretty accurate....there are only some very minor gaps of 1-2 mm at a few spaces, so I think I can easily fill it with sawdust. Is there something else then epoxy which doesn't make the sawdust darker? Concerning the Ibanez Guitars: I agree with you 100%....some weeks ago I had a Ibanez Steve Vai Jem with the vine inlay in my hands and I was shocked how bad the vine cavities were cut. Arround every inlay there was a 2-3mm line of black filler which was VERY visible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 I didn't see anywhere where you said what type of wood it is? Anyway, if you do end up using what you saved you might not be happy. Depending on what you used to do the routing, the shavings may be too large. I tried using my shavings from using a 1/32 and 1/16 bit (stewmac bits) and they just didn't work very well. I found using 150 grit sandpaper produced fine enough particles to blend in very nicely (for ebony). I use thin CA with ebony dust - I just don't like using epoxy much (personal kind of thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 2mm is a really large gap. Are you sure it's that much? That is over 1/16" (I live in Canada but I hate metric) and I've never seen an Ibanez that bad, by big gaps I mean like .020" (1/16 is .0625) or less. If they really are 2mm or so, I would fill with little inlayed pieces of wood if it is any type of fretboard besides ebony first. Or live with some filler on your first inlay I do have another filling method I use which renders the spaces nearly invisible, but it's a trade secret I intend on keeping to myself, I've never seen or heard of anyone else using it before, and really, it's not very hard to figure out, but man it works sweet Look really close at this inlay, there are dots in there that I filled, no I didn't use rosewood plugs, they show up to much, and the Ibanez vine does not cover the old dots fully, some frets it barely covers them at all Here is an inlay that I'm not really 100% happy with how the fill turned out on the dots on the 12th and 24th, but you still have to look pretty hard to see them, if I didn't tell you they were there, you'd probably never notice them. Sorry for not saying anything, but to me, some things in luthiery should remain mysterious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted February 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Thanks for the answer LGM. I really exaggerated with the gaps, as I am quite the perfectionist. Now that I think about it the gaps on my fingerboard are much smaller. Additionally as I wrote they are not arround the whole inlay, but only very little spots where I guided the router a little unsteadily. Concerning the Ibanez I am fairly sure with the 1-2 mm. As I said before, I was shocked myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 I do have another filling method I use which renders the spaces nearly invisible, but it's a trade secret I intend on keeping to myself, I've never seen or heard of anyone else using it before, and really, it's not very hard to figure out, but man it works sweet Don't you think you're being a bit "inconsistent" after having recently posting this: I've just found a new material for inlays that is going to look the absolute business on my new guitar. Not telling any of you what it is though     Why post something like that and then not even say what it is? This is a forum to help people dude, it's like if you posted asking a question and somebody said "I know the answer, but I'm not telling you" Lame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVDL Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 HAHAHAH you got him!! Now you have to tell us LGM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 lame...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted February 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 I do have another filling method I use which renders the spaces nearly invisible, but it's a trade secret I intend on keeping to myself, I've never seen or heard of anyone else using it before, and really, it's not very hard to figure out, but man it works sweet That is really not nice. I only realized it know. This forum is about sharing and if you tell us your "trade secret" it will help alot of us, because we are not that proffessional. Most of us are no builders living from it and we certainly would be no competition for you. The only thing I could imagine is that it is an ugly trick and you don't want that your customers know about it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr_XD Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 well, i just wouldn't if i were making a living of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Well, you can think what you want, it's not hard, it works better than using wood dust, and if you really believe that a craftsman shouldn't have a trade secret well, I guess that's your business. Perhaps it is a bit inconsistent, and Saber, I get the feeling you've had a problem with me every since the thread I posted where I mentioned I was tired of the stupid answers. The bottom line is, I answered the question asked, I have a trade secret, you know what keeping a trade secret shows? INTEGRITY. Scott said the very same thing about the holoflash finish. I suppose somebody will figure it all out one day and post tutorials and spoil that bit of mystery and magic behind the last few tradesecrets out there too. It's a shame really. I'm not saying how I do it not because I think of anyone as competition, but because it is something I came up with and is something I am proud of. So, if you can respect a craftsman keeping a trade secret thank you, if you think I'm being an ass, let me know. If I have one less forum to visit in the future it really won't hurt my feelings. The last thing I need or want is people questioning my integrity regarding the skills I've had to learn. Maybe I'm a little hesitant to tell everything because I have learned from the school of hard knocks and had to figure most of it out myself. But, whatever, I'm pissed off right now, so let me know, if you think this is being arrogant of me voice your opinions. There are many things that people do for their living that they don't tell. Ever wonder why Darren never told the swirl secrets? Now that's been basically exposed too. Well, this is what I do for a living, this is what I do to survive. plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renablistic Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 LGM, i totally agree with you. Everyone has their tricks to do certain things. Sorry it's off track but.. You seem really mad at all us projectguitar members recently. You're always talking about leaving. I think if you really want to leave, go ahead. but a lot of guys like me reall look up to you. Hell maybe for a year after high school and before college I'll come apprentice with you. I wish... Well anyways, you should keep your secret. it's totally right and fine to do IMO. You have given so much already to this forum, that you should be able to keep a bit to yourself. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 no, I'm not mad at anybody, dissappointed I suppose in a couple of people, and stressed out lately. Something I need to deal with, I just get upset when my integrity is questioned. Nobody here is obligated to tell anyone anything, I do my best to answer as many questions as my time permits and to answer them as thoroughly as possible, so when I'm told that I'm not being very nice, or it is implied that I am using a questionable method that I wouldn't want my customers to know about, it kinda hits hard ya know? It takes time for me to learn the methods I use, it takes time to become as good at them as possible, and it takes time to handle the workload I have. It also takes time for me to come here to read the questions, and more time to respond. Part of the enjoyment of learning a skill is the journey to learning it, if somebody hands you all of the answers on a silver platter, well, you really aren't learning as much anymore. The basics I was taught, I've taken and develloped into my own trademark skills and secrets. None of this is rocket science, it just takes an innovative and artistic mind and anybody can figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I never said you shouldn't keep secrets. I only noted the contradiction of you doing something that you criticized someone else of doing. I didn't put the words in your mouth. And, there's nothing wrong with keeping a secret. It's just gloating about having a secret that you don't want to share that's, in your own words, LAME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 @LGM: Ok my sincere apologies to you. I really understand your motivation now and I never wanted to question your authority. That bit with the "dirty trick" was not meant as an accusation but rather as a trick in the hope to get you to tell the secret. So sorry, I never wanted to get you angry and you already helped me with your original post. One thing though: If you definately DON'T want to tell a trade secret, then it would be better to not mentioned it at all. But this kinda "I know the answer but I want tell you" stuff sounds lame and is sure to upset people. So the bottom line is thanks for your help and sorry for upsetting you. CU, MK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I guess my reasoning for saying something like that, was trying to get you guys to "Think outside the box" so to speak. It's a great technique with better than good results, but it's not a traditional technique. One of the reasons I've been as successful as I have with guitar work, is I've never limited myself to traditional methods as so many luthiers have. There are many talented luthiers out there, but they are so boring, they do the same traditional stuff over and over and over. This is an artform. Who would Picasso have been if he stuck to traditional methods. What I do isn't hard to figure out, you just have to think with an open mind and really look at other materials, substances, etc. Up until I did a chrome vine, I had never seen a chrome vine or mirror inlay from anyone, I thought a bit more eccentrically and came up with a deadly method for doing that, now Sabre has done it too, I don't know if he saw my inlays or read where I mentioned what I did for them, but if he didn't, then he was thinking the same way. For every problem there is a solution, for most problems there are multiple solutions. I wasn't intending to be lame, I was hoping to get guys thinking more revolutionary than traditionally. That's what art is all about, evolution. Tradition is fine, and there are times that call for it, but without evolution, well, we'd all still be picking gnats off each others backs and swinging from tree's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Hell maybe for a year after high school and before college I'll come apprentice with you. I wish... And snitch the inlay trick from him, yeah yeah... so long ace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 I already did that inlay trick... CRAYON !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 ok...off any subject in this thread, but relating to inlay cavity routing, my dremel tool's (I just got it and love it ) bits have different length shanks. This mean that the stand that came with it doesn't work with all the bits right? Now I'm a little stumped...I've been practicing inlaying a lot, but I can never seem to get the cavity the perfect depth all the way around. Any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted February 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 @StonesCreed: I don't understand your problem. If you have two different length router bits, you simply route with the first first. Then you change to the second one and set the correct depth via the cavity you already routed with the first one. Maybe I am missing something here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 The stand that comes with the dremel tool, even when set at it's deepest setting won't carve anything with the shorter shank bit. even the longer shanked bit doesnt cut accurately to the depth that I set the base at. Devon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 The stand that comes with the dremel tool There are so many versions of Dremels and they sell them in so many different packages it's hard to tell what "stand" you are using. I've used the Dremel brand router base and the stewmac base. The stewmac base is quite a bit nicer but you can do without it. If your base doesn't allow it the bit low enough then you're probably going to have to get a different base. I wouldn't try routing for inlay without one (don't try to free-hand it - it will jump around too much). Sounds strange though - I'd think most bases would allow the dremel to get down low enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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