Wood ID

[spindlebox]

So I am pretty horrible at wood identification. How do you guys do it or is it just something something that takes time and experience?

I have some pieces I salvaged I'd love some help with!  I am pretty sure the boards I am pointing to are Oak; they're pretty heavy and look like some furniture that I know is Oak!

[Bizman62]

22 minutes ago, spindlebox said:

How do you guys do it or is it just something something that takes time and experience?

I'd say the latter.

It's hard to tell by the photos, for identification a closeup picture would be the best, possibly at several angles so that the grain orientation can be seen. What makes identifying even harder is that furniture often is stained - as are the SG guitars.

This might help identifyining if it's Oak or not: https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/distinguishing-red-oak-from-white-oak/

If you're going to use those pieces for building guitars, do a simple test: Hang them loosely between your thumb and index finger at about the 1/3 spot and knock. If it makes a long ringing sound, it's tonewood. Even better if you can tell which note you get! If it says "thump" like when kicking a flat tyre, it's not tonewood.

[spindlebox]

58 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

I'd say the latter.

It's hard to tell by the photos, for identification a closeup picture would be the best, possibly at several angles so that the grain orientation can be seen. What makes identifying even harder is that furniture often is stained - as are the SG guitars.

This might help identifyining if it's Oak or not: https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/distinguishing-red-oak-from-white-oak/

If you're going to use those pieces for building guitars, do a simple test: Hang them loosely between your thumb and index finger at about the 1/3 spot and knock. If it makes a long ringing sound, it's tonewood. Even better if you can tell which note you get! If it says "thump" like when kicking a flat tyre, it's not tonewood.

 Cool. I don't know if I really believe in tone wood for electric guitars. For acoustic guitars yes.  But we all must believe what we believe.  Brian May wasn't too concerned about it, and I am going to be making guitars from reclaimed items that have sentimental value for people.

 

Thanks for the link!

[henrim]

Some species are easy to recognize from online pictures others not so much. These identification questions pop up frequently on woodworking  groups and typically there are 10 different answers out of which one might even be the correct one. 

Anyway I think this question is in wrong sub forum.

[spindlebox]

9 minutes ago, henrim said:

Some species are easy to recognize from online pictures others not so much. These identification questions pop up frequently on woodworking  groups and typically there are 10 different answers out of which one might even be the correct one. 

Anyway I think this question is in wrong sub forum.

 I didn't even know where to put this question.

[Bizman62]

9 hours ago, spindlebox said:

. I don't know if I really believe in tone wood for electric guitars. For acoustic guitars yes.

We're in the same boat. The tonal properties of acoustic instruments rely more on the woods used although even among those you can find purists who claim that no good sound can be achieved by using other woods than what have been traditionally used. Still tap testing the wood is somewhat important for electric guitars, too, as it can reveal hidden cracks and other structurally challenging spots. I mean, you wouldn't build a neck out of spalted wood although it can look really great on the top. Brian May used the woods he had but he also knew that how they had been "stored" - a fireplace mantel most likely is the driest spot in a British house!

[spindlebox]

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

We're in the same boat. The tonal properties of acoustic instruments rely more on the woods used although even among those you can find purists who claim that no good sound can be achieved by using other woods than what have been traditionally used. Still tap testing the wood is somewhat important for electric guitars, too, as it can reveal hidden cracks and other structurally challenging spots. I mean, you wouldn't build a neck out of spalted wood although it can look really great on the top. Brian May used the woods he had but he also knew that how they had been "stored" - a fireplace mantel most likely is the driest spot in a British house!

Well, I just made a guitar to test out my templates and new equipment (and some of my burgeoning skills), out of scrap plywood and some spare pieces of Harbor Freight drawer fronts (hardwood that I laminated for the neck).  The guitar sounded great.  Of course, I used bloodwood for the fretboard, but still the rest of it was definitely not quality materials.  I planed and glued everything properly however, and still followed correct procedure to the best of my ability, and it worked GREAT.  But again, it sounded awesome enough to use on a recording I did recently.  The pickups, hardware and wiring ARE quality.  Certainly, this is never anything I would attempt to sell or pass off as quality, and it was just a "starter kit" and experiment for me - and I fully intend on using wood that's in good condition - but I'm also planning on using things like - a customer's wood table that he ate on when he was a kid for instance - somebody's grandmother's kitchen counter from their old family farm - etc.

So I'm just saying, for electric, I don't think it's nearly as crucial as I believe it is for acoustic instruments.  There are many that would call me stupid and crazy and wrong, but I have a physical guitar that says otherwise.

But this conversation is way beyond the scope of this thread and I don't intend on getting into a debate.  I'm just trying to identify the wood that I salvaged.

Thank you all.

[Invader Zim]

15 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

 

If you're going to use those pieces for building guitars, do a simple test: Hang them loosely between your thumb and index finger at about the 1/3 spot and knock.

Hold at a spot 22.4% of the total length of what you want to evaluate.

 

[spindlebox]

1 minute ago, Invader Zim said:

Hold at a spot 22.4% of the total length of what you want to evaluate.

Don't wavelengths change based upon frequency?  

 

[Invader Zim]

Just cut a few inches off of a test piece of wood and listen to what happen to the frequency from your initial test.

[Bizman62]

5 hours ago, spindlebox said:

I'm just trying to identify the wood that I salvaged.

Fair enough. Here's something that may help you there:

https://kraycustomrefinish.com/identifying-wood-types-furniture/

https://woodhappen.com/how-to-identify-wood/

There's tons more available in the Internet plus a plethora of printed litterature.

Some old craftsman, a carpenter or a cabinet maker depending on where you salvaged the woods, might also know which woods were commonly used and potentially recognize that.

Finally, no matter what the species is, for a neck you'd need something that's hard enough to withstand the string pull. I like laminated necks, building them is like Ollivander crafting the magic wands in the Harry Potter stories. For a solid body most anything works (and has been used) as long as you can attach the bridge firmly enough. Fiberboard, chipboard, corrugated cardboard, plywood, any solid wood (except balsa), plexiglass, glass, concrete, stone... And they all can sound great!

[Invader Zim]

16 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

 

Finally, no matter what the species is, for a neck you'd need something that's hard enough to withstand the string pull. I like laminated necks, 

 

Perhaps you mean stiffness since hardness is the measure of a material's resistance to surface deformation.

 

MOE and MOI are more pertinent when dealing with a beam which is what a guitar neck is.

MOE or Modulus Of Elasticity,  is the ratio of stress to strain or the stiffness of the material of a structural member.

More simply, the resistance to deformation.  MOE generally refers to the overall stiffness.

MOI or Moment Of Inertia is the bending stiffness of a structural member's cross sectional shape.

 

MOI is specific to the cross section of a member.

 

Remember that stiffness and strength are not the same.

 

 

Build what you want with what you have. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Invader Zim

[spindlebox]

17 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Fair enough. Here's something that may help you there:

https://kraycustomrefinish.com/identifying-wood-types-furniture/

https://woodhappen.com/how-to-identify-wood/

There's tons more available in the Internet plus a plethora of printed litterature.

Some old craftsman, a carpenter or a cabinet maker depending on where you salvaged the woods, might also know which woods were commonly used and potentially recognize that.

Finally, no matter what the species is, for a neck you'd need something that's hard enough to withstand the string pull. I like laminated necks, building them is like Ollivander crafting the magic wands in the Harry Potter stories. For a solid body most anything works (and has been used) as long as you can attach the bridge firmly enough. Fiberboard, chipboard, corrugated cardboard, plywood, any solid wood (except balsa), plexiglass, glass, concrete, stone... And they all can sound great!

Thank you, this is actually what I was looking for!  Yes, my first neck was laminated and it was a great deal of fun.  I am going to try visually going for a few different species - I love how it looks with contrast running down the neck.  

To add to your suggestions above (for future readers), I found an app (PICTURE THIS) that identifies flora and fauna, and it can also look at grain/endgrain and tell you what it is.  I tried it a couple months ago, but didn't have enough laying around here to fully try it.  

I will visit those links above, and I appreciate your time!

[Invader Zim]

On 10/19/2022 at 4:15 PM, spindlebox said:

 I don't know if I really believe in tone wood for electric guitars.

2 hours ago, spindlebox said:

  Yes, my first neck was laminated and it was a great deal of fun.  I am going to try visually going for a few different species - I love how it looks with contrast running down the neck.  

 

Using different species for neck laminations will quickly reveal how they contribute to the tone of a guitar. A neck made of laminated mahogany will sound very different that  one made of mahogany and maple, or purple heart or ebony or rosewood................

The benefit of laminating is an increase in stiffness and strength.

Be aware that resonant frequencies will change with the number of laminations which can be to your advantage, or not.

 

Check this link on neck woods:

http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_neck.html

Edited October 21, 2022 by Invader Zim

[Bizman62]

6 hours ago, Invader Zim said:

Perhaps you mean stiffness since hardness is the measure of a material's resistance to surface deformation.

Yes, thanks for clarifying that. Stiffness is what I meant. Thanks also for bringing up MOE and MOI to further explain durability.

Typing in haste in a foreign language often causes errors like that.