How would you do this finish? PRS Spalted maple "dark cherry glow"

[Remo]

First post/topic. Greetings all. Nube alert. I'm a simple drummer who knows nothing (on my 3rd guitar/bass build, and really love doing it). I can't guess how the finish on the referenced PRS was technically done.

I really like the layered look using the natural lines between spalting and regular wood grain. I'd like to use this for inspiration in my next guitar body though, however foolish such ambition may be. 

How to get the sharp lines between the stained color and natural finish? Some kind of paint-on masking? I've read that pre-treating with a wood conditioner can help with masking to prevent stain from bleeding under tapes, but these lines are not straight. I'm a fair artist if I can control the media enough, and my first thought would be to just freehand /waterpaint the colored areas with some keda stains, after masking manually with some kind of tacky adhesive outside the borders, Still, making the color "fade" appearance consistent among different areas would be a bit of a challenge. Thanks to all who reply. I'll be busy reading up all over this forum.

Link: https://www.gbase.com/gear/paul-reed-smith-private-stock-9779-custom-24-piezo-brazilian-2022-spalted-maple-top-natural-with-dark-cherry-glow

[Bizman62]

Hi and welcome!

If memory serves me right I may have seen a video about such finish being maked. As you said, tape is not an option and the fade (burst is what we call the dark fading rim) can't be painted by hand.

I can't tell for sure, this is just how I'd try to do that: First, apply a clearcoat on the uncoloured areas, a tiny brush is needed for the smallest details especially around theedges of the openings. Then apply the stain over the entire body. After having a solid colour do the burst using a paintbrush or spray gun. Then scrape the protecting clearcoat off and carefully level the surface with fine sandpapers. And finally spray a clearcoat over the entire body.

The wood used for that top looks like partially spalted which means the stained areas may be a bit softer  which makes scraping the hard areas clean a bit easier.

[Remo]

Thanks Mr. Bizman62! I've re-read your suggestion several times (takes a few repetitions to penetrate my skull). Very much appreciated!

I'm impatiently awaiting some test wood and cheap bodies to be delivered to try these theories out. Thanks for the tip on different wood densities on the top.

I'm not very confident in the clearcoat "staying inside the lines" when it is applied, but we'll see how it behaves coming off of my tiny brush. Referencing your process- I wonder if the clearcoat on the un-stained areas could remain in place after the stain goes on. I'm worried about damaging the wood at that stage- I'll have to look in to some techniques for that. I also wonder if pressing a tool into the wood might help create a border for the stain as well? I've not seen this done though. I'm also considering strengthening the spalting-border lines with a very fine black technical pen.

I tend to use stains, graphic pens, and watercolors much the same, often painting and reworking by hand on an over-saturated and wet surface. At least that's how I got the soft "burst" on my first project without a sprayer. Probably a bad idea with my current finish target- lots of opportunity for seepage and such, we'll see how testing goes.

Here's my entry into the finishing world, plenty of room for improvement of course. I believe the stain was oversaturated and looks hazy- I'm looking for more grain and clarity so I won't soak the wood with color as much this time.

 

[Bizman62]

1 hour ago, Remo said:

I wonder if the clearcoat on the un-stained areas could remain in place after the stain goes on.

The idea was to apply colour on the entire guitar as you've done in your photo above as that's about the only way to create a continuity in a burst or other sliding colour effects. Then you'll just sort of clean the clearcoated  unstained areas, there's no need to go down to bare wood. The stain may not even stick properly to the clearcoat so you may  be able to just wipe most of it off and then do some light sanding.

Note that the dyes may seep or gather at the edge of the clearcoated areas. That's not too big of an issue, though, if you use the natural lines to separate the areas similarly to the reference photo.

[ADFinlayson]

I've seen this finish discussed a few times. IMO that is a bit of spalted flame maple and they've clearcoated, then they've used the strong spalt lines to break up the two elements and taped off and the colour is done with shader, i definitely don't think that it's dye because you would never get crisp lines given how much spalted maple soaks up dye.  You could really carefully scrape the detail back in that the tape couldn't cover, at least that's how I'd do it.

[Bizman62]

Another way that cames into mind is somewhat similar to how they sand blast tombstones: Apply a clearcoat first all over. Then apply the protecting peel-off coat  and cut it into shape. After that spray the finish using whatever method suits you. Finally peel off the protecting coat and apply the final clearcoat. Searching for a peelable liquid coat revealed first some nail polish things but finally I found this: https://waltherstrong.com/product/interior-liquid-tape/

If that liquid masking tape works on bare wood it would open a bunch of new options. But I guess working on a properly cured hard clearcoat is a safer bet.

[Remo]

Much obliged to y'all for your generous expertise!

Once the wood bits arrive, I'll try these procedures quick before the kit arrives (a cheap spalted prs imposter). I'll shoot for accuracy in those boundary lines in the wood and see which materials/techniques work for me. I've even found some liquid tape I forgot I had. I'm also working with the idea of primers and sanding sealers' impacts on seepage across boundaries. Just self-educating here- enough massive failure and I'm bound to get one or two things right!

Thanks again for entertaining these simple questions.

[Bizman62]

Glad to hear you're familiar with liquid tape, to me it was just something that should exist!

Speaking about expertise... For me it's more about a good visual memory than knowledge by experience. But sometimes it's enough to give a nudge to the right direction. And pondering upon things like this is good excercise for the brain!

[ShatnersBassoon]

Now THAT is interesting! Like a relic and not a relic at the same time

Anyways...pretty cool.

 

[Remo]

On 11/27/2022 at 4:26 AM, ADFinlayson said:

"IMO that is a bit of spalted flame maple and they've clearcoated, then they've used the strong spalt lines to break up the two elements and taped off and the colour is done with shader, i definitely don't think that it's dye...."

Lost in translation. Respectfully, what is "shader"- same as paint? Better not be a snipe hunt. I'm not finding reference to shader in web searches in relation to finishing (maybe due to my different location on the planet). Help me out, I can only speak Texan with any confidence. 

*Once the front of the house gets painted and Christmas deco is up, etc., I've got some trial maple veneers and other supplies to sacrifice on the project now, so I'll fool with some testing soon and go with what works. Thanks all.

[Bizman62]

5 hours ago, Remo said:

Lost in translation. Respectfully, what is "shader"- same as paint?

We're in the same boat. My wild guess is that it's solvent based dye either sprayed over wet clearcoat or dye mixed in clearcoat and sprayed.

[ADFinlayson]

5 hours ago, Remo said:

Lost in translation. Respectfully, what is "shader"- same as paint? Better not be a snipe hunt. I'm not finding reference to shader in web searches in relation to finishing (maybe due to my different location on the planet). Help me out, I can only speak Texan with any confidence. 

*Once the front of the house gets painted and Christmas deco is up, etc., I've got some trial maple veneers and other supplies to sacrifice on the project now, so I'll fool with some testing soon and go with what works. Thanks all.

adding dye to clear lacquer to get a transparent tint