Lucius Paisley Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 I'm hoping to take this guitar... ... and even if the removal of the paint doesn't quite have the same result, make it into this guitar. A copy of the Tom Scholz Les Paul. While there are some similarities, as you can imagine the differences are quite a world apart. Cosmetically, I could go near enough = good enough. It's not going to sound at all like the same guitar, certainly not with a price difference of over $10K, so one would think purchasing the same (or at the very least, similar) electronic components would not be "worth it". But I have an artist's pride and a stubborn streak a mile wide (I didn't intend for that to rhyme), which I'm sure is common among all of us here, so I guess what I'm looking for here is a push in some direction. It would already be unique as the only left-handed Scholz lookalike in existence... okay, I'm not that delusional, there are a LOT of guitar players, so somebody must have done something remotely similar before now... and in the world of guitar parts, cheaper components must have been created to emulate 50-year-old components, so maybe near enough is good enough after all. Do I reach for authenticity, or do I settle for facsimile? Thoughts? Opinions? Reprimands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 How much difference is there actually? As I didn't know the story behind, I googled and found this: https://www.guitarworld.com/news/more-feeling-gibsons-tom-scholz-replica-les-paul-looks-sounds-and-feels The list in the article wasn't too long and to me they look like pretty standard modifications, the most obvious being the change of the bridge pickup and the stripped body. No mentioning about pull-push switches for coil splitting or phase reversing. So if the list is comprehensive there's not much to do. Or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Paisley Posted January 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bizman62 said: How much difference is there actually? As I didn't know the story behind, I googled and found this: https://www.guitarworld.com/news/more-feeling-gibsons-tom-scholz-replica-les-paul-looks-sounds-and-feels I went digging and found the following pages.https://web.archive.org/web/20140126000548/http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Collectors-Choice-10-Tom-Scholz-1968-Les-Paul/Specs.aspxhttps://www.creamcitymusic.com/2013-gibson-custom-shop-collectors-choice-10-tom-scholz-1968-les-paul-electric-guitar-natural-finish/ The wiring calls for bumblebee caps (I think they're .022, but not 100%) and these look kind of pricey. Edited January 8, 2023 by Lucius Paisley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Lucius Paisley said: The wiring calls for bumblebee caps (I think they're .022, but not 100%) and these look kind of pricey. Color coding suggests they are 22nF with 20% tolerance. So if healthy they are supposed to be between 17,6-26,4 nF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Lucius Paisley said: The wiring calls for bumblebee caps (I think they're .022, but not 100%) and these look kind of pricey. There's also those who claim that there's no real tonal difference between different types of caps... And I'm not talking about some contrarian youtuber hunting for views, this seems to be a common opinion among the electronically savvy luthiers and techs. Quality matters, there's no two words against it. But if the electric values are true to the originals, the materials used aren't audible until aging changes the properties. "Aluminum Gibson End Pins" are most likely tonally of equal importance... Or the "Gold Top Hats with Sliver Inserts and Dial Pointers". That said, the lightweight aluminum stoptail might actually do something that other metals won't. Same with the bridge, the ABR-1 might act differently compared to other TOM variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bizman62 said: There's also those who claim that there's no real tonal difference between different types of caps... But those bumblebees look awesome! And that helps to think there is a difference. Also prices for replicas are outrageous so that really helps too. If you pay 25€ for a 22nF cap it does sound better than anything ever. I keep my eyes open to find a bagful of NOS caps from a drift store but there hasn’t been much luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Paisley Posted January 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 40 minutes ago, Bizman62 said: There's also those who claim that there's no real tonal difference between different types of caps... And I'm not talking about some contrarian youtuber hunting for views, this seems to be a common opinion among the electronically savvy luthiers and techs. Quality matters, there's no two words against it. But if the electric values are true to the originals, the materials used aren't audible until aging changes the properties. I just rewatched a video I saw a month ago about differences between caps and as you said - values are true to the originals, aging changes the properties. A good point made by the video was that the parts they put in guitars in the '50s were based on availability and not some "magic" quality. So it's going to be orange drops for me because nobody is going to sell me their aged parts at a reasonable price. 49 minutes ago, Bizman62 said: "Aluminum Gibson End Pins" are most likely tonally of equal importance... Or the "Gold Top Hats with Sliver Inserts and Dial Pointers". That said, the lightweight aluminum stoptail might actually do something that other metals won't. Same with the bridge, the ABR-1 might act differently compared to other TOM variations. As I said in the original post, I will definitely go for the cosmetic similarity - even if the parts I buy will be new and not aged, I could age them myself, but I can just let the passage of time do that. 35 minutes ago, henrim said: I keep my eyes open to find a bagful of NOS caps from a drift store but there hasn’t been much luck. If you ever find them, play safe and try not to wrap your guitar around a tree. Thanks for talking me down, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lucius Paisley said: If you ever find them, play safe and try not to wrap your guitar around a tree. Heh, I would actually use them for other purposes. They look so much better than the modern ones that I would like to use them for point-to-point soldered circuits. Synth modules and/or pedals. More for visual reasons than sound quality, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 59 minutes ago, Lucius Paisley said: I will definitely go for the cosmetic similarity - even if the parts I buy will be new and not aged, Yepp, what I meant that the aluminum end pins are tonally as important as the bumble bees, or even of less importance. Just pointed out some of the "magical parts" listed in the original brochure. BTW there is a difference between Orange drops and Bumble Bees: The shape! If you want that, you may be interested in the pricing of https://www.tubes-store.com/index.php?cPath=35_41 compared to "dedicated" guitar caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 8 hours ago, Lucius Paisley said: I just rewatched a video I saw a month ago about differences between caps and as you said - values are true to the originals, aging changes the properties. A good point made by the video was that the parts they put in guitars in the '50s were based on availability and not some "magic" quality. Be wary, also, that the selling of "vintage" components in a market that often relies on the "heart over head" nature of a purchase (guitar building and high-end audio are prime examples) can sometimes lead to less-than honest practices by sellers. There was a thread over at the Gear Page forums a few weeks ago where a reasonably well-known purveyor of guitar electronic components was busted for selling premium quality paper-in-oil capacitors at $27 each, which turned out to be nothing more than a $1 film capacitor with a special heatshrink wrap applied. Caveat emptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Paisley Posted January 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 36 minutes ago, curtisa said: There was a thread over at the Gear Page forums a few weeks ago where a reasonably well-known purveyor of guitar electronic components was busted for selling premium quality paper-in-oil capacitors at $27 each, which turned out to be nothing more than a $1 film capacitor with a special heatshrink wrap applied. Caveat emptor Damn. There goes that plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, curtisa said: which turned out to be nothing more than a $1 film capacitor with a special heatshrink wrap applied Win-win situation. Proper modern capacitor with vintage looks. Should’ve charged more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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