GuitarMaestro Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Hi! I am not very expirienced in finishing/painting. Can you recommend a clear pore filler and sealer to me that is a good base for a clear Polyurethane finish? The wood to finish is black limba btw..... Thanks in advance, Marcel Knapp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Deft makes some. Available at any major hardware store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 'Hot Stuff' CA (Superglue) Wear a respirator. I use red for the first coat or two, then yellow. You can just go with yellow if you want, no problem. The only filler I use anymore. No shrinkback. Crystal clear. Rock hard. Affordable. Available in small quantities. Easy to get a good level surface to start your finish. You have to be quick on the application. Dries very fast so you can move on to the next step quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I'll second the recommendation for CA, and also throw in most any 5 minute epoxy. They are 100% solids, so you get no shrinkage, and it's easy to apply provided you work on small areas at a time, mixing in small batches. A little goes a long way, and you don't want it setting up before you've got it laid out flat. The nice thing which both CA and decent epoxy have in common is they are both glass clear, and neither shrink. They also setup quickly, so you can get the grain filled quickly, and sand it back without waiting days for it to dry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted March 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Is there nothing less "brutal" then Ca or epoxy? I imagine they are both very bad for the tone of the final guitar???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Is there nothing less "brutal" then Ca or epoxy? I imagine they are both very bad for the tone of the final guitar???? Pfff... You're spraying poly over the top of the damn thing...!! Also, I know of a number of very experienced builders using epoxy successfully with accoustic guitars - if this was a problem they would certainly be aware of it. You may have read the Milburn guitars french polish essay on the web - these guys now grain fill with 5 min epoxy. I wouldn't worry about it affecting your tone at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted March 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Ok convinced....lol What kind of epoxy should I use then? The 5 minute epoxy I have at hand seems to be a little yellowish in color and is very viscous. I also made the expirience that 5 minute epoxy never gets really glass hard but always stays a little like rubber. Is there a special epoxy that you would recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 What I use for 5 minute is Devcon 5 minute in the double-syringes. Both syringes are crystal clear, no yellowing. Setch is right, the 5 minute is much more forgiving, there are no fumes to worry about, and it's easier to apply. I mention the CA because I am sometimes trying to enhance grain figure as well as pore fill, like with the mega-flamed Koa I'm doing tonight, it will get the CA treatment, because there's tons of figure in the wood I want to enhance much the same way users of Tru-Oil use it, to really seep into the pores and enhance figure, but if you're just pore filling something normal, the 5 minute is the way to go, much nicer to use. The CA will just seep itself into where it belongs, I use one of those black sponge applicators to put it on...the epoxy I use a plastic spatula and really press it in, much like regular pore filler. And as far as hardness...I used that stuff to glue a topper onto a body once that I later sacrificed to the Wall Of Death. Upon looking at the scattered dead carcassed remains of the body, I noticed a drip-blob of the 5 minute that had dribbled down the side of the interior cavity. Dude, it was harder than anything I've ever seen, it was brick, and I mean BRICK...hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 nice.. and I've been using just plain grain filler all this time. I'm gonna have to try that out.. Just when you think you know most everything about guitar building, you learn something new. lol One other question of concern. You are suppose to dye before you apply the 5 minute epoxy right? Or can you dye at all when doing it this way? Just curious... Also, does it do just as good on Mahogany as it does on other woods? Back to the books... I need more schoolin' LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Well, I'm not saying they are the end-all be-all of pore fillers, the other stuff has it's place too, but I have found for what 'I' normally use pore filler for, these ways work best for me, but not for everyone I'm sure. I am usually looking for a CLEAR pore filler, which is where these products work great. Applying the 5-minute is pretty much like applying a clear finish. The thing that makes it a 'pore-filler' is you sanding it back until it's just in the pores and you've exposed the rest of the wood surface by sanding back until it's just left in the pores and you now have a level surface on which to shoot your finish. Staining beforehand, well, I could see that getting awfully tricky since you're sanding back. I almost always am using these products on woods that will be finished natural, no stains or dyes are usually involved, like Coco-Bolo, Curly Redwood, Burls, stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted March 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Thanks! What is the reason to not use usual pore filler? Is it incompatible to polyurethane finishes or is it simply not available in clear? Thanks, MK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Drak, have you tried using the epoxy thinned with alcohol? I've heard people on the MIMF waxing all poetic about the way thinned epoxy pops figure, but I've yet to try it... I applied the epoxy over a few coats of garnet shellac, which I was using to colour my mahogany. I found that it was fairly easy to get a nice even coverage if I did small areas at a time, so I had plenty of opportunity to smooth the surface. The only place I experienced trouble was on the sides of the guitar, where I rushed, and tried to do the lot with one batch. As a result it started to setup before I got it totally smooth, and that led to a few small sandthoughs when I levelled it. I imagine that you could apply this stuff over a stain, but you'd have to be very methodical, and get the fill very smooth. Then you could shoot a few coats of laquer before completely levelling the epoxy, hopefully this would give you just enough film to avoid sandthroughs. Like I Drak said, this is best for natural finishes, but it might be worth experimenting a bit... **Edit** Marcel - very few grain fillers are actually clear, and very few are totally shrink free. Conventional grain fillers tend to be 'neutral' coloured, so they can make pores look a bit bland, or even paler than the surrounding wood, which IMO looks nasty. They also shrink as they dry, which causes the grain to show through the beautiful flat finish you spent all those hours on... major bummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Drak, have you tried using the epoxy thinned with alcohol? I've heard people on the MIMF waxing all poetic about the way thinned epoxy pops figure, but I've yet to try it... Damn You Setch! This Koa is no place for experimentin'! OK OK OK, how much alcohol to how much epoxy, I've got it all right here, hahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renablistic Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 isn't polyurethane self-leveling? So the top will always be level and not bumpy as a regular clear coat? I mean would polying then sanding back until level work as well? then do your final coats over it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Drak, have you tried using the epoxy thinned with alcohol? I've heard people on the MIMF waxing all poetic about the way thinned epoxy pops figure, but I've yet to try it... Damn You Setch! This Koa is no place for experimentin'! OK OK OK, how much alcohol to how much epoxy, I've got it all right here, hahaha! I'm not sure of the dillution... all the comments I read simply said to mix the epoxy, then add alcohol to taste...well, you know what I mean Damn... that sure is a lot of smileys...hypnotic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted March 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 I canot imagine that epoxy and alcohol mix at all. I would definately try that on scrap first and really wait some days to check if the epoxy gets perfectly hard with the alcohol mixed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 I canot imagine that epoxy and alcohol mix at all. I would definately try that on scrap first and really wait some days to check if the epoxy gets perfectly hard with the alcohol mixed in. To clarify, I should have said 'thinners' not alcohol. Whilst denatured alcohol, acetone and a few others can be used to thin epoxy, apprently lacquer thinners are best... and refreshingly toxic too It is true that thinning epoxy reduces it's strength, this isn't an issue when using it for grain filling or popping figure, since it doesn't need to be mechanically strong. The thinning also retards it's drying, but I'm led to believe that it does still setup good and hard. If you are really concerned that the thinning with lacquer thinners will cause trouble, you can also thin by heating, but you better be ready to deal with the reduced working time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrock Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 you can also thin by heating, but you better be ready to deal with the reduced working time... And exploding epoxy if it all goes wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 So could I use epoxy to fill the grain and a crack (very small) in my strat if I used a tinted clear instead of wiping on the stain? I'm gonna use nitro if that makes a difference. Devon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Yeah, you could do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 YAY! I've been looking for nitrocellulose filler for like weeks now, cause somebody told me that's what I should use...I'm starting to believe it doesn't even exist. The crack was on a glue joint caused by stripping my strat with a heat gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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