psw Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 That looks great curtis...not too high a parts count and most of them resistors... I would perhaps add a diode protection for the circuit and perhaps some kind of power smoothing caps so as to run the poweramp on minimal components (even if this stage doesn't need it)...also, there is the phase reversal and on off functions to consider, and maybe the resistor for LED operation too... There is no control here, but I guess a gain control out to the amp would be a possibility if people need to do some tweaking... It certainly looks like it meets our criteria, fairly simple, common and cheap parts, small size, battery operation...very slick... Got to say there is ceratainly some progress lately with these circuit approaches and Tim's success on the driver front... We do need to look at how this is going to be implemented...every guitar is different... The pickup replacement idea is a good one and if it can work in the mid position a real bonus. It could be possible to make something surface mount too...but the magnets are going to be tricky. There is the whole switching issue too...using a 4pdt switch is a big ask both space wise and cost, not to mention availability... I am fascinated by my experiment last night with a pickup removed from the system not overly effected by the driver...certainly no squeal. It did have some unusual responses and I couldn't get it to work in harmonic mode properly... Would this mean that if a small dedicated pickup to drive it some of our emi issues would be less...kind of as in the ebow? Certainly an odd thing but I guess this is just as the ebow works effectively... Anyway...excellent work there... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 OK, results time This works, both in simulation and in real life: not for me, at least not well I'm having trouble keeping it stable under simulation, and when it does work, it is highly frequency dependent - some compression at and above about 1khz, but no output at say 200Hz. I didn't get 'dynamic range invertion', and the output starts to ramp up again when the input goes beyond about 900 mV (my guitar can produce inputs beyond 2V) I've possibly made some error setting it up, although I've triple checked it. Maybe there is some simulator related issue. I was surprised to see that there is no 'correction' of the control voltage I found I had to use a voltage divider and adder to tweak up the control voltage. (I found a way of combining the adder with the second half of the precision dual rectifier to save an amp) Other than that, its very similar to my version using the J201 and LM358s I'll have another go at this later, and post my j201 version. cheers Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazzyone Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Pete i take it your getting the same effect i am with this rail pickup? never tried the slide approach but will to see how it works with the amp im using and worse case at $14 its a great little hot pickup and keep in mind how well it worked with a "clean" tone on my sound samples even the high E at the 24 fret worked as a singing harmonic im just wishing i could utilize the phase reversal function but im also watching to see what you come up with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 That's a shame col...keep working on your ideas...there's more than one way to catch this mouse I'm sure... Shawn...I will be moving house soon so I haven't been able to try what you have done yet. I did have trouble with the harmonic mode though even using it as a pickup (except on low strings) and am wondering if it doesn't relate to the effective wider core the two blades make (10mm) over the thin core (3mm) that my driver uses. So...will be busy over the next month or so I imagine preparing for the move and it may be some time before I get much of a chance at doing things. Christamas/holiday season is coming and that will mean work is even busier...there is a public holiday coming next week but not for me I have had to work every holiday for the last 10 years...still, it pays well! Keep up the good work... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bancika Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Hi, Pete, I've received your mail but couldn't reply because your mailbox is full. HUUGE THANKS By the way, a friend gave me a bunch of old pickups to experiment with...here's a pic Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 (edited) You're not the first to point that out Actually...my email gets clogged up by notifications for all the replys to this thread... No to mention finding somewhere to live and all the spammy stuff... Anyway...deleted a bit of stuff and I hope that it is coming through now. The email attached to my profile was changed a few months back as the original one seems to be controlled by my ex-wife! so I hope people are using that one...I think you are...still, more housekeeping my end required I suspect... Those super cheap top pickups have perfectly good ceramic magnets under them and in fact, I used on with a bobbin of about 5mm that looked a lot like those and wound a driver on it and it worked perfectly ok... Hope the wire gets there soon...I was just checking out my new neighbourhood, went into the local shopping centre and the first shop is a DSE with 4 rolls of this stuff hanging on the wall...go figure! Mind you, I was looking for a washing machine, fridge and a gift for my daughter which was a lot harder to find pete Edited October 27, 2006 by psw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bancika Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Those pickups on top are two coils of a broken humbucker Anyway, one of pickups (bottom left) should be working and I'd like to try it on my squier. It should be diMarzio or Schaller, better than stock anyway. But the thing is those leads are very thin and flimsy. Any ideas how to connect "normal" wire to coil in case these POS leads isn't good. I know it's a bit off topic, but you guys are expirienced with this Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Sure...those leads seem pretty standard. I tend to use shielded cable and so would use two core with an outer shield for ease (and best for mods like phase switching and such later) and because my guitars aren't sheilded... So connect one ocre to one lead and the other to the other...it is a lot easier to solder to these POS connections even if cut a little shorter than risking the coil...and don't use too much heat! Normally a single coil like this has a connection plate sticking out to the side (kind of triangular) and the connections are made to this by soldering to little eyelets. In many ways this is better as it allows a place to solder the thin pickup coil wire to the lead wires and provides a strain relief for the main lead so as to prevent damage. Sometimes these eyelets are on the base plate ends...can't tell from the pick as there seems to be no way of mounting it?...the rail pickup I just got has the 4 connections to eyelets in each corner and leads going from them to a 4 core shielded cable to the triagular side piece for strain relief...so it has it all there! These are side concerns that we will need to consider if people are making drivers so it isn't so far off topic... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Curtis: That's a nice little AGC circuit - it does, however, share the inherent problems of any JFET gain control circuit, ie, that both threshold and dynamic range will vary with the Idss and Vgsoff of the individual FET. Since the driver signal isn't part of the audio output (at least it isn't if we do things properly ), it probably won't matter much in this application. The feedback resistors around the FET will help linearize the response nicely, so you can probably adjust for device variance by trimming the FWR's gain - you'll simply have to try a few dozen FETs to be sure . Of course, using an optocoupler will give you more dynamic range, but since a little clipping apparently doesn't interfere with the driver signal's efficiency, it probably doesn't matter either. "Close enough" may be more than sufficient. In that spirit, you may find that a pair of 100K resistors will make a sufficiently "stiff" supply divider, and a JFET source follower could buffer the input, so you could use a dual opamp, further reducing current consumption - just a thought. Col: I'm not sure we have to worry about the lower threshold, since the drive signal should never enter the audio output path, and noise shouldn't drive the strings at all, but it may be a concern. I'd love to play with this myself, but I'm in the final stages of "product development" for a stompbox that's supposed to be available first of the year, and prototyping isn't going swimmingly, so my time is spoken for, at least until I can get something I'm happy with working consistently. Besides, it would take me months to get a coil wound, and I expect you lot to have a working system by that time. If you'd like a couple of these VTL5C2s to play with/blow up/whatever, by all means, don't be shy (ask Pete - I fried 2 JRC386 chips back in the early stages of this thread ). As for simulating them, when I was designing my (unfinished) compressor, I just modelled the sidechain to generate enough current in a red LED to turn the LDR on without frying the LED (according to the vactrol specs - I targeted a max current of about 35mA, as I remember). The breadboarded "first draft" worked, but didn't sound as good as Johan's LA Light circuit, and I never got around to tweaking everything out, having other commitments at the time. Let me know. Pete: Glad to hear things are improving, even if it's incrementally. Hang in there. And finally, Bancika I cannot thank you enough for the layout software! It's really spectacular - keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Great post as always LK...good to see you back around the traps, you've been missed! Thanks for your kind thoughts...ups and downs still, but ever slowly climbing! I was a little concerned about that 100k voltage divider...doesn't that set the input impedance...I notice most stompbox circuits suggest significantly higher values...but what would I know...simplifying it further would be an advantage space wise too though...so it is a good thought all the same and would address possible loading issues with a Jfet input. I'd still like to see an active buffering option, but perhaps this is another "module" as an option... Bancika I cannot thank you enough for the layout software! It's really spectacular - keep up the good work! Yes...I am sure we will see a lot more layouts posted on the 'net with this program...my thanks are even now winging it's way over to europe from this far land... night all... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Col: I'm not sure we have to worry about the lower threshold, since the drive signal should never enter the audio output path, and noise shouldn't drive the strings at all, but it may be a concern. In my original circuit, I was having problems with feedback and parasitic oscillations... I'm pretty sure that these were - at least in part - caused by boosting very low level signals generating feedback from driver/pickup crosstalk. As for simulating them, when I was designing my (unfinished) compressor, I just modelled the sidechain to generate enough current in a red LED to turn the LDR on without frying the LED (according to the vactrol specs - I targeted a max current of about 35mA, as I remember). .. I'll give that approach a shot then I've also found a simple cludge for dealing with the much higher level signals that hot pickups can produce, (these are beyond the control of the FET limiter when it is set in the range that I think we need for the sustainer). I tried just using a simple diode clipper as a raw limiter and it works a treat. cheers Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebenezer shred Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 (edited) hey guys i'm back. i just stripped a single coil and have it blocked and ready to rewind. Probably still gonna use the fetzer/ruby, instead of curtis's new design. I was thinking also, I go on the ultimate-guitar.com forum all the time, and it seems like every day there's three new threads asking about diy sustainers, so i'm thinkin it'd be good to open another sustainer thread over there. what do you think? I feel like I should ask permission since you guys have been working so hard on this thread. Also because if i do I'd want to post some of the pics and schematics you guys have made. also, have you guys seen this? http://store.guitarfetish.com/cofrjatoinsu.html Edited October 28, 2006 by ebenezer shred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 (edited) Hey EB... I know bancika is about to do exactly this in the very near future...he has promised to do pics and here is his Pup waiting for it's wire that I sent him... You may want to see how his comes together... There are some interesting stuff at GF and also availavble through Flex guitars and others...onboard preamps, even amps and now effects... There certainly are lessons in how these boards connections are laid out, and how small a "product" built on our principles may be (if we can keep it simple) compared to the two manufacturers... As for the compressor itself...both me a curtis have used conventional compressors with encouraging results...however...what col and curtis are working on is a different type of compressor (a feed forward design) that in our application functions a little differently from what you'd expect... Basically a compressor, limiter brings up low level signals and squishes higher signals to produce a consistant output. The advertised "infinite sustain" is false as it does not drive the string...what it can do is keep the volume up untill it stops vibrating...typically in a kind of splutter effect! What these guys are attempting here is to compress the signal according to what it hears before it is compressed, not after as is typical. In the sustainer some strings (thin high tension strings) are harder to sustain and require more power, due to the fixed placement of the driver, some fretted notes respond better than others (phase differences), higher fretted notes will be pushed closer to the driver (action related issues)...I am sure there are more... By referencing a compressor by what goes in rather than out, these differences will be accounted and compensated for. So, instead of squishing everything, it will make notes louder as required to continue sustaining the string, and back off when the sustainer is easily able to sustain a string...it promises a more refined consistant response over the whole guitar... OK...a compressor or distortion on the whole guitar signal will help to make it more consistant but then you loose dynamic range... All is not lost by making a fetzer/ruby...in fact there is a stripboard layout a few pages back I believe that may help. Even if you decide to later add a circuit like col and curtis are developing...just swap out or add it to the circuit you make now! Mine does have surprisingly good performance without the bells and whistles... Similarly you may come up with a better driver idea...swap it out with the one you are using and away you go...so having something that works is always a good place to start at...the F/R has proven to be effective, so lets start there, ay! Thanks for the link though, it does look like something of interest and it is interesting to see the promotion of further on-board electronics these days. As for other threads...it is probably worth giving me a link to these places as people find them. This thread does have sister threads to make people aware of the work and directing them here for their interest. Guitar Nuts for instance, Aron's stompbox forum and at the moment a bit of a question at the pickup makers forum (where I am getting a hard time over why I would want to take apart a rail pickup and remove the blades!)... There have been people who pop up trying to rip off this work as their own. Sometimes they appear not to have even successfully made the device...that is disappointing. This thread was created to be a one stop shop for exploring a range of DIY sustainer ideas (including Ebows, acoustic sustainers, samplers, etc) which is why it is so long running... Starting another 136 page thread on the same subject somewhere else seems like a bad idea. Give me a link and I will perhaps contribute to their discussion. Some forums do not have the same "audience" as others though. Some are brand specific, some think I am selling something, and some simply dismiss the idea of DIY and post endless links to sustainiac or fernandes, etc... The development of this to the next level is really down to people making them and refining them in little ways...I lucked out here at PG in that respect and this is exactly the type of forum that would encourage this kind of thing to flourish. So...anyone seriously looking into DIY sustainers could not avoid finding this thread...it comes up as the first find on google...a quick check also found that I did post the sustainer guitar on the Ultimate Guitar Forum and as I recall introduced the ideas...but they don't like links back to other forums such as this appparently and I got a cool reception as I recall, so haven't been back since. Ohhh...in fact, apparently I haven't replyed to 4 messages all year...they didn't even notify me! Sorry axe_2_grind...I see you found us over here! See...I can't be everywhere answering the same questions...if you can, give them a link back to here...or send me a link to a thread and I will post myself if they would like...my user name at UG and GN is 4real... I'll look into the UG again, but a quick search found nothing of particular interest...it is a different kind of forum you know, nothing wrong with that, a place to hang out and stuff, but PG is really about building stuff and getting your hands dirty in the process...if people seriously wanted to do something like this, they would come here, is my view! pete PS...if anyone else has any sites that may be of interest let me know...and, if this wasn't enough of a thread...let me know if people would like some further links to these other threads...I can probably track them down and some of them are of interest...some strange, and some plain funny! Edited October 28, 2006 by psw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazzyone Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Pete ive read some of your posts at the other sites regarding the dissmantiling of the rail just go for it if it gets messed up no biggy ill get you another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted October 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Thanks man, but someone who has rewound them does think the blades could come out ok... I have a few things I'd like to try with it first and have already gotten some ideas just from looking at the thing! Really appreciate it mate... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 not for me, at least not well I'm having trouble keeping it stable under simulation, and when it does work, it is highly frequency dependent - some compression at and above about 1khz, but no output at say 200Hz. I didn't get 'dynamic range invertion', and the output starts to ramp up again when the input goes beyond about 900 mV (my guitar can produce inputs beyond 2V) That's a bugger, Col Dunno what to suggest? Like I said, it works for me in real life and on the sim. Regarding the output level from the guitar, surely you won't get 2V out when the sustainer is running? A couple hundred mV maybe. I'm sure I could get 2V out of my Ibanez RG7 if I hammered the low-B with a super hard pick, swinging my arm Pete Townsend style, but I reckon at that point I wouldn't be too worried about the sustainer! The dynamic range inversion I found only worked up to a point, afterwhich the compressor couldn't attenuate the signal any further and the output continued rising at a much slower, but linear rate. But this was well above the point at which the compressor stopped being usable. Don't forget that we're just looking at treating the input voltages up to a point - the point at which the sustainer can continue exciting the string, which will probably only be at a few hundred mV output. Anything above this is probably not worth worrying about. Anything up to and over 1V is probably us going mental onstage and bashing away with reckless abandon on an "A" power chord That's a nice little AGC circuit - it does, however, share the inherent problems of any JFET gain control circuit, ie, that both threshold and dynamic range will vary with the Idss and Vgsoff of the individual FET. Since the driver signal isn't part of the audio output (at least it isn't if we do things properly ), it probably won't matter much in this application. The feedback resistors around the FET will help linearize the response nicely, so you can probably adjust for device variance by trimming the FWR's gain - you'll simply have to try a few dozen FETs to be sure I would expect that this circuit would need to be tweaked if it were installed in a guitar anyway, as there's no way that our sustainers, guitars, and setups are going to be identical from person to person anyway. My parts drawers had 10 of the BF256B's in it. I tried three in the circuit to check component variances, and they all worked fine. Of course, using an optocoupler will give you more dynamic range, but since a little clipping apparently doesn't interfere with the driver signal's efficiency, it probably doesn't matter either. "Close enough" may be more than sufficient. I suspect in this case that's all we need - just close enough. We're not looking for super high fidelity, just a more even response from our sustainers. That said, I might take you up on that offer for the VTL5C2. I wouldn't mind trying it out if only to see what it's capable of in our application. Cheers, Curtis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Just out of curiosity, what simulation software are you guys using? I love my Circuitmaker Student 6.2, but it doesn't always tell the whole truth, and it occasionally gets so confused it simply gives up. Any better options (preferably for less than $1000)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Just out of curiosity, what simulation software are you guys using? I love my Circuitmaker Student 6.2, but it doesn't always tell the whole truth, and it occasionally gets so confused it simply gives up. Any better options (preferably for less than $1000)? Electronics workbench - and I'm sure it doesn't tell the whole truth If I had the time and the inclination and if I wasn't such an electronics noob, I'd get around to learning to control SPICE using scripts... then monte-carlo analysis and other fun stuff could be done to account for component tolerances etc. ----------------------------------------------- Does anyone have any fairly simple schematics or ideas for a voltage control gate. I have a nice simple Mosfet based one grabbed from DiyStompboxes, but the on/off transition is a bit too abrupt.... This way I could use any old compressor to level the output, then use gates to control the lower and upper thresholds independantly of each other, the compressor settings and the output level. cheers Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) and if a compressor were used like which a small equalizador is tried but? Because I probe a equalizador of that they take walkman them with three potentiometers or ranks in stere using two conductors and two lm386 one for all the cords and another one lm386 with its filter for acute notes but and also I work well, although now with tda 2822 I do not need it, in exchange for but battery consumption, although for that I use 6 batteries of 2 amperes and lasts enough. Edited October 31, 2006 by zfrittz6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 and if a compressor were used like which a small equalizador is tried but? Because I probe a equalizador of that they take walkman them with three potentiometers or ranks in stere using two conductors and two lm386 one for all the cords and another one lm386 with its filter for acute notes but and also I work well, although now with tda 2822 I do not need it, in exchange for but battery consumption, although for that I use 6 batteries of 2 amperes and lasts enough. OK, so you can fit 6 batteries inside your guitar to run the higher-power TDA2822 I think most of us would struggle to fit that many batteries and the circuitry inside our guitars though. In other news I've just about got my dedicated DIY sustainer guitar put together (code name: "The Bastard" ). It's a junk store special - the neck was a Strat copy neck with a busted headstock that I bought for $30 from a secondhand music store, and the body was a black Yamaha RGZ minus the Floyd Rose that I got for $12.50 at the local rubbish dump recycling shop. I blocked up the trem cavity and installed a Les Paul-style bridge, reshaped the headstock and body slightly to get rid of the "super pointy" look, and resprayed it navy blue. The end result isn't exactly the most pretty looking thing in the world, but it sounds and plays really nicely (surprisingly, for my first build!). Anyway, the driver has been slotted into the neck single coil pickup position, and I'm just in the process of installing the circuitry. The guitar actually came with a fairly large control cavity already done, and I thought I'd be pretty well off for space, but I'm still finding it hard to squeeze in the regular guitar circuitry, a 9V battery and the sustainer circuit inside. Consequently, at this stage it'll go together with a bare-essentials sustainer circuit of a simple FET buffer and the LM386 chip until I can figure out a way to fit in all these other compressors and preamps that we've developed. Cheers, Curtis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Anyway, the driver has been slotted into the neck single coil pickup position, and I'm just in the process of installing the circuitry. The guitar actually came with a fairly large control cavity already done, and I thought I'd be pretty well off for space, but I'm still finding it hard to squeeze in the regular guitar circuitry, a 9V battery and the sustainer circuit inside. Consequently, at this stage it'll go together with a bare-essentials sustainer circuit of a simple FET buffer and the LM386 chip until I can figure out a way to fit in all these other compressors and preamps that we've developed. This is great news... I really think it is a good plan to get something installed and get to know the "sustainer guitar" in this simple form... It also brings up, as zfrittz6's post does too...that the installation of this device into the gutar has it's own problems and one that we haven't addresed to much. After you get hooked with the device, you may find that there are refinements and add these to something that works...but also...making the device a practical solution will need to be adddressed and a balace or inovative solutions be developed... You will soon find for instance that you will seriously consider such things as remote power, off-board electronics, the "sustain box" concept (battery and circuit mounted like a tailpiece on to the guitar) and look very carefully at the size and even shape of circuit boards... While my guitar has a big extra control cavity for the sustainer and the circuit I use is a little larger than the F/R circuit can be, it could just fit I imagine...certainly in the trem was blocked up (though I really find the trem essential to my playing these days and with the sustainer in particular) you could fit it all in there... My idea of making it more modular and having the amp circuit with the driver is I think a good one, but only experimentation will show if the EMI out of the driver doesn't cause problems...then we would only be looking at a pretty small preamp circuit...and the battery of course... The rub comes when you wish to sustainerize something more "pretty"...a les Paul or PRS or something...there you not only wont want to cut out a control cavity, you won't even want to drill a hole for a switch... So, sometimes it may seem that my ideas are pushing towards the impractical (surface mounted digital switching, etc) and sometimes the answer that with SMD's this would be small enough (though the battery would always be a problem)...we cant really work with SMD's at present and only then as a commercial proposition...so what is a practical small scale production or DIY solution...perhaps there isn't one... On the other hand...Shawns rail pickup driver floor amp solution is another thing to consider perhaps... To anyone considering this project, I would seriously be thinking of dedicating a guitar, like I and curtis and others have done, to the sustainer project at least for a starter... Good stuff...so are there pics of this thing?... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onelastgoodbye Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 A quickie from me ... Considering the install space issue, I don't recall we ever seriously considered a strapmount box for the circuit and battery? More like a feedthrough box were you'd take the signal from the guitar jack, run it to the box with a short lead, split the signal in the box, then run your regular chord out from the box to the amp. The poweramp would be next to the driver, so there's no real issue with running a longer (driver) signal cable to the box, since it's a low impedance signal (and if possible a coax/shielded wire). A mini switch on the driver could take care of powering up the driver. I suppose there's still a problem with switching out the pickups though. Maybe a combined driver/pickup could work completely independent from the guitar's pickups. The ebow does it, and psw's latest fiddlings with the rail pickup seem to suggest the same thing. mmm...it's like, in an ebow, it's driver coil and pickup coil seem to cancel eachother out completely as far as their combined magnetic influence on the guitar's pickups is conserned?? Somehow that makes sens, then again it doesn't... Tim psw..i'll shoot you a mail in a couple of hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazzyone Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 as Pete pointed out and it's still my goal is to have this the electronics outboard its much more modular this way think about it one driver circut and a driver in each guitar. then you can just change on the fly no control room issues. if you read one of my previous posts you'll see my layout im not saying its the best solution but it is a good one and its definetly cheaper as you only make one circut assembly and once thats perfected all attention can be focused on the driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Considering the install space issue, I don't recall we ever seriously considered a strapmount box for the circuit and battery? Well, it has been mentioned...it is similar to the onboard "sustain box" idea afterall... The poweramp would be next to the driver, so there's no real issue with running a longer (driver) signal cable to the box, since it's a low impedance signal (and if possible a coax/shielded wire). A mini switch on the driver could take care of powering up the driver. I suppose there's still a problem with switching out the pickups though. Yes...well you will recall I did make a testing "sustain box" device...it did work on my LP and there are sound clips...but only if the bridge pickup was selected and the neck was lowered too much to be effective as a pickup... The difference now is that we can see a way to do switching in the preamp for the harmonics and of course the on/off is simply disconecting the battery... The real problem is the elaborate bypass wiring required for the pickups... Potentially we could rewire the guitar so that one push/pull rotary controls it...but it still is a bit of a mod, and may be better to go all the way... My "drive" towards the mid coil sustainer with an onboard poweramp would mean that with a two pickup guitar, you would not have to modify the switching other than to remove the mid pickup from the selection options...still a bit tricky! Your ultra-thin coils do have some potential (if suitable internal magnets could be found and it works in the mid position) for typical 2 pickup guitars, along a similar theme... Maybe a combined driver/pickup could work completely independent from the guitar's pickups. One incarnation of an independant pickup/driver ebow type thing could be making such ultra thin coils into enlarged pickup rings...that would be cool...perhaps they could borrow from the immediate field of the pickup next to it instead of an internal magnet? It was an interesting observation that kind of mirrored the ebow...the ebow has sweet spots and cancellation effects over pickups...driving over a pickup will also cause distortion and increased volume...it did not seem to suffer from the squeal effect though as it is not a part of the guitar's own signal chain... It will be interesting to see if the same kind of jig that you have successfully used with the 5 min drivers, could be used with pickups...thinner wire, more turns...remember, as with the DIY ebow, we are not talking the amount of windings of a conventional pickup to make something effective enough to run an LM386 for example... It would be interesting also to develop very small pickup coils like this for low impedance, preamped pickups in their own right...the preamp could easily be built into the structure of the pickup given the space savings (perhaps the preamp PCB could also serve as the base plate for the unit)...maybe such a pickup could run effectively from a very small coin battery or some rechargable thing that works for months...at least as a pickup... The battery is by far the biggest component of the sustainer however...and I am sure this could be installed on a strap or even a box via a stereo cable as has already been discussed...possibly the drive signal itself in a similar way, as long as the poweramp is in the guitar and receives power... At the very least you would be looking at 4 wires (signal and power) for an onboard driver... The sustainer is however a modification to the instrument in even the most ambitious of work arounds...perhaps that should be embraced... Otherwise, an ebow like device may be something to consider as this is a sustainer technology that truely does not require modification to the guitar...certainly something to think about... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 That so the circuit proposed by curtisa with lm 324 goes?. If it works well it will prove to make it in SMD along with the amplifier, with printed circuit of double slide, to occupy the minimum space, and it will use commutators of which take walkman them, very small, to mount it everything in the conductor, not to have as soon as to modify the good guitar that I have she is one jem 555 of ibanez and the truth I do not want to touch it until not this all perfect one and with the minimum possible modifications. The truth is that for this project it is necessary to modify enough the guitars, unless utilizemos some box outside her, for the batteries and the circuits, I have been able to put it everything in the guitar who I have bought for this project, which me 100 cost €, and have had it to modify completely to put the batteries, hollowing the wood, and the amplifier hize in smd and I have the conductor along with. greetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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