Scrappy_Squirrel

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Does anyone have specs and measurements for the Stetsbar? I need the height capability and measurements of the TOM more specifically. I'm in the process of figuring out neck angle for a solid body electric and I have a few questions about that too. I've been told that a 2-3 deg backward neck angle will suffice for the stetsbar and I'm satisfied with this answer. I've also been told my options include: 1. Instead of a neck angle I can have the neck straight and build the fretboard proud of the body. 2. Have a slight forward angle like a classical guitar. I've been told this can really change the sound. My question is: How do the second two options change the sound and playability of the guitar? Will the strings be more "slinky"? Will the sound of the guitar be more mellow or "poppy"?

Good info. Thanks for the clear and concise responses. I think I'm starting to get a feel for what is going on with the headstock angle thing.

I'm smelling a little bit of territorial pissing going on in here. Man, this place gets more uptight with every passing year. I guess being the new guy on the block I have to pay my dues first eh? I stand corrected by the science snob on the process of "science". There were a few comments made by people that were meant to be derogatory towards me, in defense of the OP but thats ok as they were made to protect him, I understand. Sometimes people let their emotions control their actions but that's inherently part of what makes us human. My real intent was to open up communication and dialog about the subject and express my concern for his grade, not to rub his face in the dirt and kick him when he's down. I must have missed the part about it being a high school project and others must have missed the part where I said I was concerned. I started my comments out by saying they might be taken as harsh because sometimes I'm not sure how else to say it. I'd rather express concern in the best way I know how and risk criticism than not speak at all. Next time I'll reserve my concern and post a pretty picture of a puppy or fluffy kitten complete with inspirational corporate cliches about climbing mountains or making lemonade. Hell, concern is overrated anyway. To the OP, good luck on your science project. I truly hope you get what you want out of your class and your project with a good grade to boot. ...The evil eyed squirrel slowly slithers and skulks out of the room...

I'm sure this will come across as harsh but it probably needs to be said so I'll take a flame or two... MickGuard is correct in that there are many, many variables and many types of bridges to test. Unfortunately your results would be meaningless because you are changing more than one variable with each model in your experiment. For a true experiment you would want multiple copies of the same bridge: One bridge would serve as your control and the copies would each have one variance from the control. For instance: You might have four tom bridges of the same brand, size, shape, style and method of attachment into the same guitar but each bridge would be made from a different metal. You can only change one variable at a time with a true experiment otherwise your confounds are too numerous to gather any real information. In fact, in order to establish a true control, prior to introducing variables, you would need to measure the sustain of six, or more, of the exact same bridges, in the same guitar, even before introducing any variables into your bridge experiment. Real science is a pita but going through the motions is what yields real results. I'm not trying to burst your bubble but I just wanted it to be stated for the record in case it makes a difference in your grade. I'd hate to see you get a bad grade.

Is there any benefit to a 15 deg headstock angle vs a 13 deg headstock angle, or vise versa? what is the minimum useful angle for a guitar headstock and why? Is there a maximum useful angle? I'm thinking of using a smaller angle (13 deg or less) to add a bit of strength to the headstock but also for a more "slinky" string tension... wil it work or hurt in the long run?

This is not about price corrections in the market. Believe me proper dealers are raising prices every year (and I take no issue or challenge the validity of the price increases). I am speaking specifically to dealers who have targeted instrument makers as a group that pays more for wood. These dealers are placing the lable "instrument grade" on wood that does not meet the higher grading standards that would set this wood apart from the more common grades, and specifically often have properties that are actually very undesirable to instrument builders. This clearly shows me they do not understand instrument wood grading, they just see a group to target. Doug, If you bought that cut and surfaced as a set you got a good deal (those services cost). If you payed about $7-10 a bd. ft. for non specific sawn select grade lumber you payed about the right price. If that piece was to be tagged "instrument grade" it should be well quartersawn and should have fairly straight vertical grain(your is rift to flat, which is fine), it would also have nice pleasing color and be free of visable defects(as your piece does). If it met the criteria for "instrument grade", then you could start to justify 3 to 10 times the value. Sounds crazy when you think about it, but that falls into what I stated is "reasonable" pricing. I take issue when the pricing is in the 11-15 times range, and is not meeting all the criteria. It's Portland... Look at how many guitar builders, guitar building classes and guitar building newbs there are. Of course they're going to profiteer, they see a demand for it. Ultimately, they wouldn't charge so much if people didn't pay the price to begin with. It's just like anything else, when you have a resource that is in high demand and a large population demanding it then the price will continue to go up until people stop paying it. In the meantime, they look at you with a big grin and wait... they know that guitar builders "Have to have it" if they really like it and will pay anything for it.

I would imagine that with some ingenuity you could get some cool snake skin effects with a lacewood top and a combination of stains.

I don't know of anything but it seems to me that there is a niche market for this. I'm surprised Warmoth doesn't have this as an option.

Well, I'm not really talking about chambering it in the conventional sense. I'm going to use carbon fiber rods from LMI on both sides of my truss rod. I was price shopping carbon rods and found a better price on square stock carbon fiber tubes: http://www.cstsales.com/carbon_square_tubes.html & http://www.hobby-lobby.com/carbonfiber.htm I feel certain these would be strong enough as neck supports but I was considering what it would do to the sound having those carbon fiber channels running into the body of a chambered or hollow-body electric. I know the carbon fiber chambers would be minuscule but it seems that it would transmit something since the carbon fiber usually has direct contact with the fretboard. Here are a couple more links for reasonably priced carbon: http://www.acp-composites.com/acp-cr.htm http://www.hobbylinc.com/prods/rf.htm

Oops... It looks like I misunderstood what I was reading. When I did a keyword search for "chambered neck" it came up as "chambered neck through" but all of the links were for bass guitars, hmmmm... Although, I did find several references to Lap-steel guitars and some aluminum neck Travis Beam guitars as having chambered necks. So, what purpose does the chambered neck serve in a lap-steel. The Travis Beam, I imagine, is chambered for weight but I'm not sure. Anyone have any thoughts as to what effect small chambers, if any, would have on an electric?

Why do some basses come with the option of a chambered neck? Do the chambers just reduce weight? How would a chambered neck effect a 6 string guitar? I was considering using square carbon-fiber tubing (instead of solid stock) for neck supports and realized this might create a chambered effect... Also, why aren't there more guitars, besides basses, that use Bubinga as a neck? How does Bubinga sound as a guitar neck? Is there any reason to not use Bubinga as a guitar neck? What about as a stiffener for a Limba neck, will it add some bright midrange, more bass, more sustain?

This link might answer part of your question. http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/guitars/index.html

I appreciate everyones responses. I agree with Jmrentis and Vinny in that I will continue regardless of the answers and won't let it slow me down. I just wanted to know so that I wasn't making any major mistakes in my design as I wasn't sure how much each factor would compound to the point of detriment; sounds like none of it will matter too much as long as construction quality is high. For the time being my design is going to be a two piece black limba body with a book-matched birdseye maple top, two piece (laminated) black limba neck w/volute, Madagascar ebony fret board, carbon fiber reinforced neck/fretboard with an LMI double action truss rod, angled headstock. I'm considering the Steinberger tuners because they will allow for a direct/straight string-pull headstock (3x3) and give me more slack for high design verses having to design the headstock shape around the tuner knobs. The final decisions I have to make are in regards to the bridge and pickups. Has anyone directly compared he Stesbar, Khaller & Trem-King? I don't like floating trems. Does one of these bridge designs hold a distinct advantage over the others? Admittedly, I like the retro look of the stetsbar... Also, has anyone had experience with Qtuner pickups? Are they really as versatile as they seem? Can I use a Bill Lawrence Qfilter in conjunction with the Qtuner Super High Z's? I'm looking for versatility here. I hope to end up with something as versatile as the PRS 513. Anyone have advice on good pickups? Ultimately I'd love to have two humbuckers that split to give a true P90 sound but I'm not sure if that exists.

Hiya'. Long time lurker here. I'm finally getting to build the guitar I've been planning for three years (Shop access hasn't been easy to come by). I've been given some advice by other builders that seems counterintuitive and I thought I'd run it by you seasoned builders to see what you think. I'm always open to good advice but sometimes it doesn't always make sense. 1. A three piece body/back is better than a two piece body/back, in regards to sustain, because the bridge and pickups are mounted on one solid piece verses the bridge straddling two separate laminated pieces. 2. A glue-in neck sustains better and has better resonance than a neck through because a neck through cancels out some of it's own string vibration due to it being one contiguous piece of wood. 3. Bubinga, rosewood and Pau Ferro are horrible tone woods for solid body electric necks and bodies because they are oily and not very resonant. 4. A hard maple top on any solid body guitar helps distribute all frequencies and string vibrations evenly so that the guitar resonates and sustains better... 5. More glue joints in a guitar = Less sustain and resonance. Also, how do the Stetsbar, Khaller & Trem-King compare in the way of tuning stability, Sustain, resonance & tone sucking? I do palm mute a bit and would like to retain the ability to do so comfortably so I'm looking for a near surface mount, non floating, trem or equivalent. I would think the Khaller sucks the most sustain due to the roller guides. Any advice on good trems (Besides Floyd Rose)? Any advice on which locking tuners are best. I'm considering five in particular: Steinberger locking tuners from stewmac, Gotoh 510-Delta series, Grover locking minis, Planet Waves or Sperzels. I've used the Grovers but have no experience with the others.

Another bump for the hell-of-it.

I'm not fond of pickguards either so I know where your trying to go with this. It would look pretty slick but personally I would NEVER want the nightmare of having to service the thing, lol. You'd have to cut up the finish somewhere down the road to replace a scratchy pot or something. What a nightnamare! You could incorporate some kind of tongue/lap joint on half of the top. Maybe hide hardware and screws inside of a pickup cavity or something... the possibillities are there but it all depends on exactly what compromises you can live with. I think that no matter how you go about it you're either going to end up with a multi piece cap/back, control covers, or a hermetically sealed timebomb. On the other hand... You could make the whole back of the guitar come off with a few screws...that might be interesting. Since it's on the back it would be a less intrusive look than a cavity cover. If you had some kind of tongue and groove system or latch hardware in key areas internally, or externally, you could screw it down with one screw (the strap button). The most important and hardest part would be keeping it all tight. I could see some kind of sliding, tapered, keyhole and button thing working pretty well.

"Best" way is to strip the guitar, prime, paint and/or glue on graphics, build up coats of clear until smooth... If you want a quick hack that's pretty clean then: I've never painted laquer over an existing epoxy polyester finish so I'm unsure how that will work. However, if your guitar is currently coated in laquer or polyurethane then this will do it. Don't use anything water based over an existing oil based finish. 1. Mask off the parts of the guit you don't want destroyed. (remove them all if possible). Mask the neck pocket if you remove the neck. 2. Scuff sand the existing finish with 320 grit paper. smooth out any chips. 3. Spray on one coat of laquer primer (this step is optional and only if you plan on completely re-covering the whole guitar with color and graphics) , wait to dry, scuff sand only for tooth 320 grit or finer. fair out any chips in the finish to smooth edges. 4. Paint/glue your graphic. 5. Layer on clear coats of laquer allowing to dry and scuff sanding in between layers. fair out the edges of the graphic lightly between coats (Don't sand through). Only put on as many clear coats as you want/need for your own sanity and peace of mind. Done

None whatsoever.

I was cleaning out my archives and I ran accross this tut I wrote up a while ago. I'm sure you experienced builders have already thought of this but I thought I'd post this tutorial for any adventurous peops interested in doing it on the cheap. I originally posted this two years ago on Harmony-Central. Let me know if there's anything blatantly wrong with it. If you want this in MS Word format with a visual diagram there is a link for it at the bottom of the page. I hope someone finds it useful. ~Justin ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DIY Tone Pro TOM (Diagram at the end) I recently considered purchasing a tone pro locking tune-o-matic bridge for small posts. It seemed to get great reviews so I wanted to give it a try; the only thing stopping me was the 65.00 it would cost me. Yea, I know I’m cheap and sure, 65 bucks really isn’t a lot, but I wasn’t sure if this was another one of those over hyped, tone mojo, smoke and mirror things or the real deal. Even though 65 bucks is a good deal for better tone I wasn’t about to hand it over as marketing fodder for the next tone scam. After carefully inspecting the piece I realized that what I was considering buying was really just a tune-o-matic bridge with two setscrews holding onto the stock posts. This surely didn’t seem worth 65 bucks to me; after all I already had a tune-o-matic bridge, all I needed were two threaded holes and two setscrews! I decided to make my own. The results were worth the eleven dollars I spent on a new tool and the one-hour of work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is my recipe for DIY Tone Pro Tune-o-matic bridge (for any post size) Materials needed: 1: tune-o-matic bridge (stock, any color, any post size) 1: 3” 4-40 size threaded rod -or- two 4-40 set screws (You can also use 5-40 or 6-40 threaded rod or set screws but be sure and use the corresponding tap as described below). I used 4-40 because it seemed like an appropriate size… It wasn’t much of a logical process for me. ---------------------------- Tools needed: For making the set screw (ignore this if you have prefab set screws) 1: dremel tool (& 1 sanding/cutting disk ) or a hack saw and sandpaper. 1: Pair Needle Nose Pliers For drilling and threading/tapping the screw holes 1: drill (preferably a drill press) 1: 4-40 size (or other size) “tap” with corresponding drill bit and tap handle (the tap and drill bit come as a paired kit and the handle is usually sold separately (Home Depot, ACE or Lowe’s) My total cost: 4-40 tap + drill bit + tap handle + 3”, 4-40 threaded rod = $11.00 (two years later it's probably more like $15.00) ---------------------------- Step 1: (Making a set screw) (If using the threaded rod approach start here. If not, because you already have setscrews - go to step 2) Remember to wear eye protection! Hold, or clamp, your threaded rod so that you have ¼” of the rod exposed (pliers, vice, etc...). Using the dremel tool cut a thin slot in the tip of the threaded rod like your making a screw (you are making a screw) about 2mm deep. You can sand the top nice and even with a few strokes. When you are happy with your screwdriver slot then cut that piece of threaded rod off so that it is about 3/8” long. Level and sand the non-slotted end of your screw to remove any burs and any uneven-ness. Step 2: (Drilling the holes in the bridge) Hold or clamp your tune-o-matic bridge so that the side with the intonation adjustments is face down. Using a permanent marker make a dot that is centered (so that when you drill your 2 holes, one on each side of the bridge, you drill directly into the center of your postholes. Note: It helps to tap a mark into the metal to guide your drill bit. You can use a hammer and scrawl or small nail. This will help keep the drill bit centered so it doesn't slip around on the bridge . Using the drill bit that came with your tap, drill your two holes (Be sure to use a little oil so that you don’t dull or break your drill bit). Step 3: (Threading the new holes in the bridge) Take your tap and screw into the holes you just drilled (Screw in a few turns and back out then screw in a few more turns and back it out…be sure to use a little oil, until your hole is completely threaded. Repeat as needed until the hole is completely threaded. You now have two threaded holes and two setscrews. Guess what comes next! That’s right, you install it. Partially thread your screws into your holes. Place the bridge on its posts, and tighten the setscrews onto the posts. It may seem involved but if your used to using tools, and you are confident with them, this is really only a one-hour procedure, at most. Last I checked I wasn’t making 65.00 an hour so to me this mod was worth it. How does it sound? The sound changed only slightly but there was a little more of a noticeable “ring” in my strings. The real differences I hear are the increased sustain and the more pronounced resonance. Also, when I remove my strings I don’t have to worry about where the bridge is going to fall. This is added reassurance for a forgetful person such as myself. I think that the difference would be more drastic if I also had the locking tailpiece. That will be my next project As far as I’m concerned, paying the 65.00 for this bridge is not worth the high cost when I can make it. If you’ve got the tools and the gumption, however, the one-hour DIY mod is well worth it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q & A Yes, I agree that this modification probably will do no good if you are using dime-store hardware but it may help enough to hold you over. Mine is not one of these cases. and I recommend that if your hardware is loose all around, thin and made of tin you need a new bridge anyway so buy a new one. As for some commonly asked questions regarding how to do this modification: Q1. What exactly is a tap handle? A1. A tap handle is just as it sounds. It's a cantilever with a vise-like chuck in the center that tightens and holds the tap securely. This gives you leverage to turn the tap into the drilled hole. This allows you to use many tap sizes with the same handle. These are found in the same tool department and probably right next to where the taps are hanging. I got mine at Lowes. A tap is a threaded piece of hardened steel that is made to thread holes in other softer metals. The threaded rod is in the screw and fastener isle. I found it in a big rolling tool chest with a bunch of other specialized screws, bolts and fasteners. You’ll find pre made setscrews there too. Q2. 4-40 taps come in certain sizes or is that indicative of the size for the bridge? A2. 4-40 refers to the size (diameter) of the tap. You can use 5-40 or 6-40 if you want (They will be larger respectively). I chose 4-40 because I did this all on the fly. 4-40 was the smallest I needed to go to keep from over drilling. After doing this adjustment I will probably use 5-40 or 6-40 next time. Just be sure that if you use a 5-40 diameter tap that you buy 5-40 size threaded rod or 5-40 size set screws. The most important part is that you have plenty of meat left on your bridge after you drill and tap the hole. The size of the hole is your preference. Also, Lowes didn't have the set screws I wanted in stock and that's why I made them myself. You might get lucky and actually find your size of set screw pre-fab. That way you can avoid the possibility of shooting a 3/8" piece of metal in your eye. Q3. Also what is the best way to cut the rod down to 3/8"? I know you say dremel, but i can see the little tip being cut from my vice, and once its cut all the way through the dremel kicks that little 3/8" piece of metal into never never land or worse yet my eye if I forgot to wear eye protection. I didn't see where you used the pliers for anything, or is that how you broke the rod in two but cutting it in half and then bending it back and forth... A3. Surprisingly I didn't hold the threaded rod with anything and it just fell straight down. I wouldn't recommend this though. I tend to have a lot of luck when it comes to doing impulsive and stupid **** and not getting hurt (knock on wood for me please, real wood, not the fake stuff). When I mentioned the pliers I did originally intend to lie and say I used them to hold the rod but I forgot to. SO FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, USE EYE PROTECTION and pliers to hold the rod! Don't grip the rod too hard though or you might squish the threads down and render it useless. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Another warning: Be careful that you do not break your drill bit or your tap inside of the hole you are drilling/tapping. These are high carbon steel tools; if they break you will not get them out! They will not break easily but a good rule of thumb when tooling metal is: don't force it. If you are meeting resistance back it out slowly, clean off your tap/drill bit use some oil and drill/tap a little more. I met no resistance with mine but that does not mean you won't. another thing I thought of to sure things up a bit... The posts on my bridge seem to wiggle a wee bit. I used teflon pipe tape on the post threads. just wrap a few turns of the pipe tape around the lower 1/4" of the posts where they screw into the bushings. this makes that whole assembly a little tighter. Teflon pipe tape can be found at most hardware stores in the pipe isle (or you can just ask for "teflon pipe tape"). This stuff is cheap and will last forever. If a little bit sticks out after everything goes together you can cut it with an exacto blade. Don't worry, it's not tape in the conventional sense, it has no adhesive. It's actualy a thin teflon ribbon that is stretchy and smooth. It's used to make a water or gas pipe joint tighter, by filling in the threads, so that water or gas doesn't leak. The best part is that its completely reversible (the tape doesn't stick so you can just pull it off). This tape suggestion may be way overboard for some but I'm a chronic and neurotic tinkerer and I always have to try something if I think about it. Anyway, I hope someone finds this usefull. If for no other reason than to satisfy their curiosity. SEE DIAGRAM BELOW ------------------------------------------------------------------------- MS Word Document + Diagram http://www.digitaldiner.biz/misc/tonepro.doc Diagram Only http://www.digitaldiner.biz/misc/tonepro.jpg

WOW, great info guys! Thanks a lot Mattia for the technical rundown. It's always good to know why/how things are a particular way. Brian, thanks for the idea on the tuners, I think that's the way I'll end up going! I didn't know those tuners even existed and they're pretty slick lookin' to boot. Have you used them? How stable are they? ~Justin

If that isn't telling I don't know what is... Looks like I'll be designing for a PRS style peghead. Although, I really like the look of the old style Gibson headstocks over the pointy and practical PRS style. Damn!

This is not a question about headstock angle but instead I am refering to the left, right, or straight orientation of the strings coming off the nut and going to the tuning pegs. Are there any advantages to the strings coming straight off the nut and to the tuning pegs (PRS style)? I mean, in contrast to Gibson style where the strings come off the nut and angle down and left or right toward the tuning pegs... I would think it might be better for the strings to angle down and straight because it reduces the chance of any binding at the nut...but I'm not sure. Any ideas? I'm in the design phase of my headstock so this will help determine the aesthetic and functional qualities of my headstock.

Don't worry man. Every guitar that I've stripped and refinished with laquer sounded better afterward. I've stripped off polyester, enamel, urethane... Just follow the advice regarding the neck. Do everything as fast as you can and withhold judgement several days after it' has been finished and restrung. You'll be happier with a guitar you like the looks of. Good luck!

That makes sense.