mistermikev

5 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Asymmetrical necks are a pretty old concept. Rick Toone did/does some radical sort of profile that accentuates the asymmetry by using a trapezoidal shape. Whether that was a decision based on making it a visible feature over functionality (ideas are often played out in words differently to their true intent) isn't known, but still. I'm not considering an asymmetrical profile for this project just on the basis that I could do them with this jig, but it does open out a lot more flexibility going forward. I'm wondering whether I should be a little more forward thinking in this regard and make the jig so that I can also do bass necks, but that sort of thinking is what ends up paralysing me. Anyway.

Talking of internally-sidetracking myself so far that I forget "why I went into that room in the house in the first place", I'm just about to head out of the door to investigate local auto paint shops. Specifically I want to locate somewhere local that will mix aerosol 2K to codes. The two colours I have in mind for a white pearl version of this Mirage are a Subaru Pearl White (I need to look at the chips to remind myself which one this is...champagne-y) and Porsche Pearl White (DuPont code AST1265D). I need the base plus cans of true 2K with the separate hardener canister since pre-mixed 2K is not really as durable or hard when cured.

Porsche Pearl White:

 

For reference, I meant this rendering idea I threw together a few weeks back....

 

....which in turn was inspired by this....

idk if I'd like this profile at all... but the sm concept using an mm axis profile flipped on either end might be really noice:

ps that porsche is a lovely color!!

8 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Details... And even smaller details...

I wonder what your crime was! On TV it takes much less for bribing a cop...

hehe, well maybe someday I'll get pulled over for speeding and call in a favor - jk.  

Working with those tiny letters... make me feel like a giant!  Another entire skill set required just to not break those things while putting them into the gap.

one of those little details... not entirely sure it's worth it alone but perhaps when combined with everything else it will have greater value... spent a lot of time on this!

same maple used for the fretboard and sm sonoran turquoise as the rest of the inlays... volume, mode and boost.

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

I was contemplating the whole puck approach and realised that you could easily mix and match them. Essentially creating hybrid profiles. Using a standardish C profile for the head end and some asymmetrical profile for the body end would result in a "low percent asymmetrical, mostly C" 1st fret profile and a "mostly asymmetrical, low percent C" 12th fret. That would be very cool to try out at some point, however I don't think I'd do so without adding in some additional reinforcement to prevent twisting....

right on.  well if strandberg gets away with that shape... I'm thinking almost nothing would be problematic lol!

57 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Thanks man! Well, I could CNC the neck profile, but it's all about workholding. The neck won't have a flat bearing surface once the fingerboard is on, and if it shifts during the cycle then the whole thing gets screwed up. I could do the profile before I glue the fingerboard on, however there's potential for splintering along the very edge. I also prefer clamping flat to flat to get even pressure, so having an existing neck profile makes glueup more tedious and introduces potential for error. Doing the profile by hand using a jig is controllable and very hands-on. The adjustment built into the jig along with the easy puck-based profile transitioning makes it quicker to dial in than an entire CNC program.

Plus I love jigs. @ScottR knows this!

all solid reasoning.  thanks for solving the mystery!!

On 9/26/2021 at 1:57 AM, Prostheta said:

 

This solution is similar, and I like the enclosed nature of the mechanism even though it is more complex and requires additional material such as the Plexi.

 

I don't currently own a router appropriate for that length of bit, however I can certainly borrow one until I do. The profile pucks seem a perfect solution since I am very much a desktop designer, CNC operator and propellorhead, plus it's a good jig to have going forward.

this is one of my fav videos.  the sheltima jig... before I got cnc I had seriously considered building on of these.  not so much for being able to mass produce but more to be able to consistently build a neck and know that it was "the shape I liked".  that said... I can't help but wonder why you didn't cnc the neck?

the glow in the dark logo is gonna look killer.  vcool.

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Of course not. We write and interact sequentially however we also document. Great builds cast long shadows. Absolutely correct. 

you got a bit of a poet in you there "great builds cast long shadows".  I  like that.  saving that for later.  

on the flip side... I try not to observe the romans in other threads.  Probably fall short, but I always try to be polite.

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

That's exactly why I have never liked the Festool equivalents. The closest you get to a DEROS is a pneumatic ROS in terms of profile. The direct drive brushless motor in the DEROS was designed with that application in mind, so it's as compact as it gets. Anyway. Back on topic?

no worries - in my threads derails are encouraged!  this is exactly why I setup my first post with all the most relevant build pics... I want to meandor and encourage meandoring because I'm certain it's not only me learning things!

so a hair off topic... so please forgive but relevant to the core of needing a fret bender.  

Did a lot of reading on this and came across a number of dif threads including this one: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/threads/80241-Ultimate-fret-bender

I do intend to occassionally use fender thin frets so had some concerns about the feedback many of the designs get regarding thinner frets.  I bought the one mentioned above.  I believe I paid a total of $70 shipped.  It is quite solid altho I haven't used it yet. The brass fittings around the bearings are removeable.

My one concern is the ability to somehow 'mark' the different radius's one might use.  Guess I need to get some radius templates and some fret wire and trial and error.  

anywho, in case you want a better store baught option... thought I'd mention.

i dunno if this is like the one described here... but figured I'd chime in on the off chance it helps.  

I built mine using a cheaper vise at first... not advised as it skewed.  2nd time I built using a milwaukee c vise which has been rock solid.

bought the caul from philli luthier but I suspect they are all pretty much the sm... just wanted to "know" i could continue to get decen inserts so bought it there.  some of the cheaper chinese inserts are horrible and will leave indentations on your fretboard so be advised!

just popped the rivets out of the c clamp...and had to grind it a bit on my drum sander so that the caul could more freely to wherever it needed to be.

piece of walnut - I just took my router with a 1/8" bit and routed a channel in it.  then marked the old rivet hole on the wood and used drill press to put a hole thru.  

on both pieces I use a number of thin washers to get rid of any play between the piece and the c clamp... but I could have just bent the caul.

old bandsaw tire and some gorilla glue for the soft protective edge.  I've used this design on everything but my first guitar and this specific one on my last 3 or 4.

very nice because if you want to use some glue you can just set the vise just right, clamp down and leave it sit for a few mins.  

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

The ergonomics are great as well. I hate tools that are top-heavy such as plunge routers. I like a tool to have a low centre of gravity so that it feels (and is) planted on the workpiece. Both for safety and ensuring that the work is performed without hitch or effort. Physics and ergonomics are a big part of good woodworking.

that is a very good point.  tis why I don't care for my orbital sander... or any of the electric ones that aren't $600+.  the hand is so high off the material you just don't have control.  

20 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

 

I use my DEROS religiously. It's the only sander I have but also the only sander I need. It's usually to-hand for most things and its paid it's weight in gold. Plus, it's gold!

yeah, those are really nice.  pretty much all the benefits of a da sander with the ease of an elec sander. 

35 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I'm not sure about in general, however I've seen more than a couple of people have the belt relatively slack so that it gets up to speed by friction, but the wheel can't drag. I'm trying to recall who made one recently here (recently meaning, last five years) as I recall them having a slack belt system.

I haven't machine buffed anything larger than fretwire yet, but I imagine that a "catch" would be "pretty jarring" regardless of a slack belt or not.

ok, yeah that makes a lot of sense.  I hear a lot of talk about catching and how that would be potentially troublesome and I am gathering that that is the whole reason the wheel is so popular.  makes sense.  

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

The only thing I would be careful of is the slip that buffing wheels generally tend to have. Angle grinders don't really stall out off the belt! It'll work. It'll KEEP WORKING. haha

so... buffing wheels... they don't lock them in tight?  is that what you mean by slip?

3 hours ago, ScottR said:

True statement. I have used an automotive buffer with excellent results. I tend to worry about it cutting through the edges of cavities so have just gone back to doing it by hand.

Micro mesh and this Meguiars:

https://www.meguiarsdirect.com/meguiars-m4-mirror-glaze-heavy-cut-cleaner-16oz.html

Once you get to the Meguiars, it takes surprising little time and effort even by hand.

And my stuff comes out pretty shiny......

SR

your elbow must be super human if your finishes are any indicator.  that stuff kills me. 

I have several of the different cuts of ... huh, it is spelled meguiars!  the one I don't have is the heavy cut but have been using turtle heavy for that.  should prob get the maguiars. 

very much appreciate your advice. 

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Yeah, we use a mixture of electrical ROS (Mirka DEROS) and pneumatic ROS (also Mirka). The pneumatics are great for Corian and solid surface polishing, so not too different any of that. I prefer my DEROS purely because I hate compressors

those is crazy fancy!  so... I used an air sander to shine up solid surface and it worked pretty good... esp for 3 d surfaces.  do you use either above on guitars?

6 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

You are most kind.  No - not even this one:

It's because I'm not clever/skilled/equipped enough to spray nitro, etc and so do all my gloss-finishes with old-fashioned polyurethane varnish, either wiped on or brushed on. 

And the problem with that method is that the toughness and light diffraction properties come from the underlying, flattened, layers of varnish but the gloss itself comes from the very top last couple of coats.  So if you try to buff, it quickly cuts through the gloss to the underlayers - which are matt from the flattening - and at best you get blotchy patches of satin finish and at worst you get contour lines like a topographical map 

 

wow, that' is about as glossy as it gets.  respect.

3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I can't advise on buffing, I'm afraid...none of my finishes are buffable - but just to say those 3 photos above are sparkly good.  Lovely stuff.

thank you thank you 

so you've never buffed any of your finishes?  not even that gtr in your avatar?  wow, that's a lovely finish and I would have guessed it was buffed.

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

If your finish is smooth already, there's no problem to start with a higher grit. If you find out that it doesn't seem to do the job you can always go down to a coarser grit.

I had to look what an air sander is and for what I understood it's similar to a (random) orbital sander, only lighter because there's no motor. I've used my random orbital with a hook and loop lambswool pad. A fellow builder uses an automotive polishing machine, the type with a large sponge attached to a slow angle grinder - he fastens it to the jaws of the workbench. If it's intended for polishing it will work, no matter what the convention says.

thanks for the reply biz.  yes air sander aka da sander - for sanding wood there is nothing like it.  literally the best thing ever because they are light (as you mention) and you have a ton of control with them.  Used in the cabinet and auto industry.  In auto industry they use them all the time for wetsanding. 

slow angle grinder - that seems to be a popular option too.  thanks again for chiming in.

so... don't want to hog the spotlight here in this sub-forum... but had a few things I wanted to ask about.  

so... up until this body I had always finished with rattle cans.  first time using my compressor and gun to spray anything... have never gotten a final coat that was this smooth.  there is some very tiny ripple... but as a novice pretty pleased.

so... normally I would start at 600 or 800 afa wetsanding... but I'm thinking it might be better to jump to 1k right off the bat.  I had the finish almost perfectly smooth prior to this last shoot.  what say you?  start at 1k?

also thinking of snagging an air sander.  I know the convention on guitars is a wheel buffer... but lots of folks in the auto industry seem to get some pretty good finishes using an air sander.  a wheel buffer has a single use... whereas an air sander - I would get lots of mileage out of.  I have a 3" air sander already and it works pretty good with my compressor... thinking of snagging a low cfm 5" da sander.  what say you?  why aren't more guitar builders using an air sander for buffing?

Admittedly the best guitar finishes I've seen have all been a wheel buffer afa I know... or elbow grease... but lots of things like pianos, cars and epoxy pour table tops - not using a wheel buffer on those and yet folks get great finishes on them.  Most I've seen either use an air sander or an electric buffer.

any/all feedback encouraged.

On 10/5/2021 at 1:37 AM, Dave Higham said:

Yes, that’s basically the way I do it, but I block two hex nuts against each other with an insert that I’ve modified by filing two grooves into it, turning it into a rudimentary tap. I put this in the drill press, clamp the neck in place, bring the chuck down and turn it by hand until the insert is fully engaged. Doing it in the drill press means it goes in straight.

 

Then I unblock the nuts, release the chuck and raise it, and unscrew the threaded rod. I then take the insert/tap out using a screw driver and replace it with one without the filed grooves.

 

I always do a trial run on a piece of scrap the same as the neck wood.

 

If it’s a hard wood , like maple, I do some trials with slightly larger drills.

 

Also, if it starts to become difficult to turn, I back off a bit, turn a bit more, back off again, turn a bit more, etc. (The approved method when tapping threaded holes in metal.)

 

wow, that is a fantastic idea (using drill press to ensure you don't crossthread or crapthread inserts.  you are full of good ideas.  putting that in the trick bag for if/ever I do inserts.  thank you for sharing.

38 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

I bought mine from the automotive paint store, the picture was grabbed from Amazon by a Google Image Search for "hook and loop sanding block"

noice... just found it and snagged it.  thanks for the tip. 

Just now, Bizman62 said:

Is it a secret or did you use gauze? Or perhaps braces?

no, just changed the semi hollow route and moved supports a little closer to edges.  also... moved the underside cut of the relief at the edges of the f hole a little closer to the edge.  basically there is only 3/16" of 1/8+-" thick top right there and it fans back out to full 1/4" thickness.

28 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

I'd really like to see them in real life, there's a nagging in the back of my head saying that your photos don't do justice to the colours!

The size of the f-holes seems to be just right to me, apparently you've got the proportions right. Agreed. they're long and visible but they don't look like they'd risk the structural integrity.

thanks for the encouragement biz.  if yer ever near az... def shoot me a pm.  would love to get some in person feedback on any of my builds - would be a real thrill for me. 

it's funny... on this one -in person the color really matches that inlay very well... but then in pictures, even without flash, it doesn't match quite as well altho you can see the sm color here or there in some of the flames.  

hehe, I'm very comfortable with the size of my f holes!  actually, the first version of this build (one where I cracked the top bending it) there wasn't quite enough support around the f hole.  It wasn't like you could break the wood with your finger... but you could flex it.  On this version I added some strategic supports to stiffen right under the f hole.  Pretty well supported now.

noice, that seems to confirm hook/loop is just fine. 

that's actually a nice block.  I just use chunks of wood but might have to snag one.  where did you get?