mistermikev

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Pretty much "known" information, but good to link that in. Nicely done. The end mentions cable capacitance and the LPF filter that cable runs cause. I'm interested to see what happens when I take a guitar loaded with squishy low output A2 pickups and add a low output impedance unity buffer differential preamp to drive the cable run and kill the noise. If it doesn't feel the same with the pots being 20-25k (and the tone cap 10x its normal value) then the game is on, right? That's the fun times.

hehe, I like how he sets out sounding like he'll disprove it but then says "yep, they were pretty much right" hehe.  so... your a2 pickups would be single coils each... then into a differential preamp... similar to what emg does... but they ruin the idea with super low wind coils.  I have often thought about getting some lower wound coils and building the emg pre on a sep board... I bet it would sound pretty good with some filtertrons... but it'd be nice to be able to turn it off for just passive once in a while.  anywho, sorry for the derail!

31 minutes ago, komodo said:

@Prostheta@mistermikev

Just a little deeper...
So most of my pups have been Duncan, and most (all?) of my bridge pups are 14k-17k. As mentioned you don't find a lot of consistent data on the actual Henries of output though. It'll be very interesting to see what these Giovannis do. I've also got that Black Winter, which is a 16-17k ceramic, and wondered how that one would respond with an A2 mag in it? I mean just for the hell of it. I like to blow stuff up.

Not exactly related but you guys will be interested in this: as I was assessing The Dragon, which I haven't played for awhile, I was struck by it's resonance. Most of my guitars feel great, and have a typical resonant quality to them, but this one is different. It's a swamp ash core, with maple top and maple back, and set rosewood neck. When you strum it unplugged, it's so loud it almost sounds acoustic. I would strum as I was holding it up in the air out in front of me, and when you rotated the guitar along the axis of the neck, the back would project the sound in an almost beaming way as well as the front. It has a very strong doppler effect. The quality of the sound projecting from the front/back was very similar to how a guitar sounds when you rest and edge on a table and strum, or when you rest your jaw on the top. It's extremely lively. My guess is that the sandwiched, porous swamp ash is vibrating and energizing the top and back plates. IDK but it's really cool.

you'll have to let us know how it goes... but I'm a nut for A2.  I've replaced mags on some p90s... and a few humbuckers and I've really loved it every time... not so much with a5/a8.  you might find this (not authorative) interesting...

https://bedlamguitars.wordpress.com/technical-info/pickup-magnet-swapping/

25 minutes ago, komodo said:

I've been going down pickup rabbit holes. I'm of the mind that there isn't a ton of difference in most pickups, it's a pretty rudimentary device. You've got the quality of the materials, and build quality, but as far as the recipes there is WAY too much marketing. If you take a GFS, a Duncan and a Lollar and did a double blind, I bet they'd be much closer than most think. People are going into tailspins comparing the marketing copy of sound descriptions and it's just not that complicated.

The Korina metal tele is going to get a pair of Giovanni GVH1 8k to test this theory. They're using all the right parts down to nickel silver baseplates, and were 75 for the pair. Exploring the old idea of EVH using lower output pups for more dynamics. I get that dc resistance isn't output, so hard to find consistent manufacturer data there.

On my Dragon, I'm swapping out the Duncan Jazz/Alt8 pups for an old pair of Rocksongs which will also test this theory, These are 14k - 10k and less expensive parts but they have good reputations.

I'll save the Duncan Jazz/Alt8 for a new build, but I'm thinking of swapping out the A8 mag for an UOA5 mag I've got. New build in my head is a straight up superstrat, laminated neck through koa or mappa burl top, Hannes bridge. Think Black Machine. I'll probably dismantle my partscaster if that one goes well.

Pedals are constantly rotating like a merry-go-round but I've been taking some time to dig into each pedal to really explore it before I decide it's fate. Chain order, power, settings, different guitars, etc. I've been tweaking a few home builts, swapping transistors to dial in fuzz gain, etc. I just nailed a Skreddy P19 clone yesterday that was like night and day after the change. May be my fav fuzz ever and I'm not a fuzz guy!

right on, for me... it is really hard to beat seymour because they have done the research and generally have zeroed in on right dcr/freq response/wire/magnet combos in most cases, and do a good job (for the most part) of potting w/o overdoing it.  I feel like I can reliably anticipate what I'll get.  On the other hand I've been really blown away by some relatively inexpensive and decent pickups.  I still believe the 'greatest pickups ever' can still sound bad in the wrong context, but you just have to go with your gut.  my motto has become "if you think it sounds amazing don't touch it... but if it sounds ok experimentation will almost always improve"!

recently read a thread dedicated to disproving that magnets matter... and the conclusion was: magnets matter.  starting out to disprove but finding your conclusion wrong adds a lot of credibility for me!  While I think you can't just blindly swap mags... I think you can def improve the sound of 'that pickup' in 'that guitar' with a little experimentation.  def keep us posted on how your swaps go!!

pedals... I miss, but also loath that insanity!  love me some fuzz... specially those russian ge transistors!  they are the 'franks red hot' of transistors!!

lots of room for improvement, but I cut the carve on my prototype body today... the finish pass for some reason went 1/4" deeper than I expected despite not changing my z... so will have to revisit the design on that.  The edges are going to need some massage in a few areas... will have to make my cut areas bigger in my design to fix that.  Learned a lot... can probably still turn this into something nice with a little work and glad I didn't learn all that on my purpleheart!!  

16 minutes ago, komodo said:

Thanks @mistermikev. I probably shoulda waited to build or finish my last two for when I really needed the distraction from the dumpster fire. Now I've got health, family and work issues throw on top and reaaaaaally need  a diversion. 

@Prostheta I've also been playing a lot, and now with new guitars comes a round of reevaluating amps, pedals, pickups, and everything else. I've got some serious shop editing, and cleaning to do before I start another, but there are two builds already knocking on the door in my head.

well now... do tell... gear upgrades sounds nice!  

sorry to hear of health/family/work issues... I've been blessed with pretty steady work and family... but health is more and more a big part of my life.  I guess they call this getting old.  Gotta really capitalize when I get a string of good days, but then gotta remember to slow down and not do anything stupid!

just saw yer pick up on the home page so... congratulations!  

2 hours ago, MiKro said:

Well It is more than just a few adjustments. Dammit. Looks as though I may be building me a new Z axis after all. It is off enough that i can adjust it to very close with out making new parts for the time being. I think I am going to fix it to it's best first and use it to make the next one. It will at least accurately locate center holes for drilling on the drill press.  Then I can make the new parts for this one and put it on something else.

I knew I was going to have to build another one at sometime because this has a slight amount of flex in it that I have never been happy with, even if it is only 0.003", I want better. LOL. So time for a newer design and a stiffer one.

 

MK

 

I see a lot of guys using their machine to make a new machine... apparently the spindle I have is capable of doing aluminum and other light metals.  I imagine eventually I'm going to have to learn more about replacing/upgrading the mechanical structure so... if you do and upgrade and are so inclined... would love to see pics.

59 minutes ago, MiKro said:

I got in a hurry and used two sided tape only for something that I knew better on. I did not surface my spoil board in the past 4 weeks. Well you guessed it, the tape let loose on a part. Damn it I know better, the spoil board had swelled some here and there and was no longer level..

I could have used screws, but not dumb ass me, Get in a hurry and don't do it right. LOL. Now I have to tram the damn spindle again. That will take some hours I don't have to spare right now. Oh well, Shit happens!!

MK

well... if that's the worst thing that happens to you this year... prob doing all right then!  chin up.

19 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

I belong to the minority: Dad's tools were and still are sub par - a couple of screwdrivers, a hammer and pliers plus a saw and an axe for making firewood. And I learned to drink beer past my 30th birthday... Needless to say he didn't need a lock on the booze cabinet.

Well, the quantity my dad had wasn't great... but he had some lovely old style clamps that were overbuilt, and some good squares.  That said... my dad was more a mechanic and those tools didn't apply well to my interests.  Now my grandpa... he had drill presses, table saws... all sorts. 

if you look at it right... looks like a shovel... "the shovelhead".  nice lines.

3 hours ago, PRSpoggers said:

I mean like what kid wants powertools for christmas? Most kids my age want like a PS5 or something like that

tru dat.  I think most of us in here were gettin' into dads tools at an early age as opposed to his beer... and then some of us getting into both!!  Still have some of those tools but all the beer is gone.  anywho, don't ever mix the two!!

32 minutes ago, PRSpoggers said:

Got grounded for working with powertools without supervision! Hopefully soon!

mom - "stop working with powertools unsupervised and go do drugs like a normal kid"... this is not advice at all... DO NOT DO DRUGS... just thought it was funny.

13 minutes ago, PRSpoggers said:

Really!! I mean shoot I STILL need to get a bandsaw but I'm most likely getting one for christmas

"you'll put yer eye out" - red rider!

well, hopefully not and not likely.  so... all your excuses for not having built something already are pretty much gone - lets see some build pics pronto!!

ran it this morng w/o the spindle... def progressing west.  "it's good!"

thank y'all again for all the help!!

3 hours ago, curtisa said:

Had you lived a bit closer to me I'd send you my old axis drivers that I swapped out of my machine a couple of months ago, as they're just paperweights to me now...

well that's nice but honestly the knowledge transfer is even more valuable.  the sentiment is appreciate tho!!

7 minutes ago, curtisa said:

With reference to the datasheet you linked to: 

The combination of these two switches sets the driver to be compatible with the style of stepper motor you have connected. M1 and M2 should both be set to off conditions to select 2-phase motor control, which is what you have on your machine (see page 9 of the datasheet). That's assuming that DIP switches S1 and S2 being in the OFF position (up) = M1 and M2 being off.

The combination of these switches sets how quickly the current in each stepper motor coil starts to decay when the steps stop being sent to the driver. Switches S3 and S4 in your case are set to ON, which makes the decay mode 100%, (start to decay immediately when the driver becomes idle, page 9 in the datasheet and also graphs on page 16)

The combination of these two switches sets the amount of torque (current) drive applied to each motor. The datasheet is a bit vague about this setting, but it looks like the motor driver current is set by an external resistor to a fixed maximum value, and then you can divide this maximum current drive down by a factor of 100%, 75%, 50% and 20% by setting these switches according to the table on page 10 of the datasheet. For your drivers that have S5 = ON and S6 = OFF that would equate to an operating torque of 75% of the set max. For your drivers set to S5 and S6 bot = OFF they're running in 100% torque mode. Higher torque (current) will result in a 'stronger' motor at the expense of more heat being generated in that motor.

I can't find anything in the datasheet that relates to this on first glance, but you have it set ON for all your drives, and I assume ON = motor current reduction active?

right on.  I saw the pages where they were showing how to set to 20/50/75/100 but wasn't sure how that actualized so you really cleared that up for me and I thank you.  had no idea on the m1/2 and what that meant... so thanks again for that.  l did look at my motors and the 4th axis and z axis are the sm size - slightly smaller than the others... so the switches seemed like they might correspond to that.  

I wonder if I messed up the x axis drive... I did bang that one off the walls more than any other.  

anywho, at this point... I think I've got enough info that if I end up needing to replace them I know I can get a similar one on evilbay... and this thread will be the perfect thing to use as a reference to potentially replace one.  Not to get ahead of myself.  Still am holding my heart as I'll run the neck pocket tomorrow and see if we have a definite fix.  seems good on the test script... went right back to zero.

thank you again for hanging in there with me!!  I've learned a lot and very much thankful for your and mikros guidance.

well... thank you again gents - for all your help.  you lead me to the problem.  just swapped the drives and flipped the switches back to what they were on each drive before the swap... ran my test 5 times and we went right back to center.  I want to end on a positive note tonight so I'm not going to attempt to run the neck pocket as my spirit just couldn't take it at this point if it doesn't go right... so saving that for tomorrow.  Sure looks solved tho.

looks like X/Y are 3/4/7 while Z/A are 3/4/5/7

I've been looking all around the for a manual for these boards but no luck searching for similar 6560/6560AHQ, nor the other numbers I found on the board (prt st01a2 or TX14207)

I did find a much better image of what appears to be the sm board over at cnczone:

over at https://www.cnczone.com/forums/stepper-motors-drives/338540-tx14207-schematic.html

Quote

"I had to piece this guy appart a few months ago and wrote down the board schematics. I can send you what I have but it has not been curated at all.

I found your post trying to figure out what the dip switch do... The X, Y, Z axis have 3,4,5,7 ON; The A axis has 3,4 ON.

From left to right on the Green 6 screw terminal you have: A-, A+, B-, B+, V+, GND these connect to your stepper and power supply

The white terminal connects to the through hole labelled ENA, 5V, DIR, 5V, P, 5V and go to the parallel card adapter."

and later found:

Quote

S1: M1
S2: M2
S3: DCY1
S4: DCY2
S5: TQ1
S6: TQ2
S7: connected to a GAL microcontroller... Not sure yet

Haven't fully digested this yet... but according to that perhaps they installed the drivers in the wrong position or flipped the switches wrong

Quote

Adding:
S7: This reduces the motor current at low speeds i.e. less than about 10 whole steps per second. Makes the motor a run bit nosier but is kinder to the motor, the driver and the power supply.

can anyone comment on what m1/m2/dcy1/dcy2/tq1/tq2 means in laymans' terms?

edit: according to this: http://www.netzmafia.de/skripten/hardware/Datenblaetter/Motor-Servo-Stepper/TB6560AHQ_AFG_E_2003_20080407.pdf

"torque setting input"

1 hour ago, MiKro said:

Here is a better wiring diagram for stepper motors and drivers I put together..

MK

right on that makes a lot of sense then... the green plug is the 4 to the steppers with the pos/neg power, and the white plug is the 3 from the controller then.  thank you for that.

55 minutes ago, MiKro said:

Well pulse is most likely to fast now, I would go back to the 2 or 3 setting on that. Set the accel rate to 10% to 15 % max for grins to see what happens on all axis. Bump your microsteps up by the next value for tests at this point. try say 3000 if that is a choice. you may try the other direction as well.

I added a file for you to gen a toolpath with. rename by removing the .zip

MK

test.crv3d.zip 19 kB · 0 downloads

roger that.  thanks for the help.  will try asap.

47 minutes ago, MiKro said:

Mike in this picture I can barely see the dip switches. It appears that on two of them DIP 5 is on and the other it is not? Also what micro steps are you running and what is your accleration? Whan I have had an issue with the type of movement you describe it was usually the acceleration that was a problem. I am still concerned about the dips though? On most drivers DIP 4 or maybe 5  (???  been awhile) is normally used to to half the power at idle.

also would like to see all of the wiring to the drivers? Are you using wiring to the enable connectors on the drivers as well? Most do not use this as the 5VDC for pulse and direction is all that is needed.. Or is the small connector that has the Black, Red, Yellow to the Pulse and direction?

Also what drivers are they specifically? If they are the TB6600 then many have had issues with them.

 

These are the drivers I use.

https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers/kl5056

 

thanks for the chime in @mikro. 

I believe these are the "crappy little brother" to the 6600 ie the 6560.

the dips: this machine does have a slightly dif (smaller) motor for the z axis.  I think I read that the dip switches are set dif on this drive and possibly the A drive too? 

Can't find these exact drives anywhere altho there are similar 6560s on evilbay... but they don't have the white connector(black/red/yel you mentioned) - no idea what wires are what.

accel - I believe it is 1500, microsteps I believe are 320 on the xya and 400 on z if I'm not mistaken.  pulse is set to 0/o on all??  I have played with all of these settings with zero success.

I took it all apart this morning and was looking at it just b4 work and was planning to label the drives and take a crap ton of pics for future reference -when I get home tonight. 

1 minute ago, curtisa said:

I had forgotten you'd stumped up for the extra axis on your machine. Certainly worth a shot if it's easy to reconfigure A axis driver as X.

I mean I would physically swap them as opposed to reconfigure in mach3 .  

1 minute ago, curtisa said:

What about if write up a quick small program that just moves the X axis in small increments, with a pause between each move?

Psuedo code would read something like:

When the program ends measure the distance travelled and see if the total amount of movement adds up to 1 inch.

I would certainly be willing to try that - you've done so much so far - don't know how I'll ever repay.  I know I know... "someday I might ask you for a little favor..." hehe.  that said, I don't think x movement by itself is the issue.  it seems to be x only in combo with y... but I could be wrong, would love to know.

was thinking... I have a 4th axis... in theory, if I get the gumption... I could swap the drive board between x and a.  doubt I'll ever use the a axis anyway... but I'd be taking a chance at bringing the whole thing down by jacking around with it.  have to think on it some more.  the prospect of being up and running is very tempting.

33 minutes ago, curtisa said:

So it's slow rates of stepping on X axis while Y axis is simultaneously doing fast rates of stepping, but only when X is traveling in the negative direction west beyond X=0? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 

Based on your observations and my interpretation, when you run the code you've just attached you're seeing:

1. the cutter zip west in a straight line
2. gradually head north at a slight easterly angle
3. turn around and head due south
4. turn around and head due north <- incorrect motion at this point?
5. cutter zips back across to the origin and now X is too far east?

Step 4 of the above should be heading north at a slight westerly angle, but instead it only goes due north? And during step 4 are you seeing Mach3 update the X axis readout while it's making the move?

 

The slower the movement of the axis the fewer pulses per second are being sent to it. The voltage/current waveforms being applied to the stepper motors should the same magnitude, but the rate at which they change will be different. They shouldn't be any more or less susceptible to interference whether you're stepping at 1IPM or 100IPM. Noise *could* be an issue perhaps, but it's got a funny way of influencing how the machine is being affected.

I'm more concerned that perhaps you've got a buggy copy of Mach3.

between steps 3 and 4 there is a very slight angle... and I think it is here that is causing the issue... but admittedly I hadn't watched the coordinates while it was running.  Might have to try that.  that said... I ran this 3 or 4 times in a row, then did goToZero and we were off by about 1/4".  It does seem to move at an angle at step4.  It is hard to tell if it's moving at an angle for step 3 because it's so slight.

on my old machine I was using the copy of mach3 I got with the machine, but had licensed it legit thru mach3.  On the new machine (the one I tested this on) I had downloaded the latest version of mach3 and then licensed it.  So I doubt it's an issue with the version... and I suspect many people have been able to cut neck pockets using mach3.  I would think I would have heard others with this issue.

Maybe these stepper drivers have issues with very small movements?  Then it only seems like it's the x.  could be that that one driver has a bad chip and is missing steps.  I have heard of this issue for others.  I really need to pull the thing apart and figure out what drivers these are.  If I can get one cheap it'd be worth trying to replace it.  That said... I'm aware I could switch x/y axis and do another test... but I'm certain I get the sm result.  

so... had set my machine coords, calibrated my x and y and saved the fixture... often when i do this and close out and come back to mach3 mill... my machine is rendered unable to move.  just gives a terrible whine from the motors when you try to jog it.  it's infuriating.  Then you have to replace the .xml file to get things back working... and this resets all the calibration and machine coords I just set.  Mach3 works fine after these procedures and only bugs out when you re-open it.  I'm sure that's a feature.  The "if you want your machine to just scream and not move" feature.

that said... I wrote a program to test slight angles and sure enough... breaks it every time.  just a simple one pass around a triangle with slight angles and x is off.  y seems to maintain.  if my understanding is correct... those little commands that would keep the spindle moving at an angle probably are very small bursts of electricity.  Those would be more susceptible to emi.  I'm hoping anyway.  Perhaps the replacing of the cables will fix some of that.

as I understand, I will want to run an actual ground wire to the spindle.  currently, there are only 3 wires going to it... I think I can wire up the 4th prong to ground, and then on the spindle side I can wire that prong to a lug washer and place it on the mounting screws.  Should be getting the wire sometime this week... and a few remaining connectors I need. 

Next up: adventures in rewiring.

TEST_ANGLE_PRECISION.rtf