mistermikev

2 hours ago, komodo said:

As a wood whore, I think I'm qualified to comment.
Where I'm at these days is: 
-Is it pretty? I mean for guitar making, is it really worth all of the build time?
-Is it structurally sufficient? And really, I only worry about necks. Bodies could really be any wood, though some really are better (limba).
-Do I NEEEEED it? I hoard wood, because you have to buy it when you have the chance. That said, lots of wood comes and goes. I've already got what I need to build guitars, but is this a special piece that neeeeeeeds rescued??

Of course this only applies to myself. I did just buy some good flamed maple because apparently I ran out and didn't realize it. It's for a new build that could be done with what I have on hand, but there's a vision in my head.

komodos 5 rules of when to buy - I like it.  well, in this respect... it's mediocre pretty... 

structural... well I would guess yes except for the potential weathering at the edges.

need... I have a rediculous pile of flamed maple!  enough mahog to do probably 10 guitars... enough ash for another 5... quite a few tops... none of them are sippo, nor any sissoo... so yes... I DO need it!  hehe

I have a lumber yard 4 blocks from my work... been pulling all kinds of good stuff out of there and what's more I can hit it on my lunch time and relieve some work stress.  At this point I'm running out of space... so my taste in terms of what makes me pull the trigger have changed.  Keep asking myself - is this something that I'd be happy with if I used it for a top?  If so... hard to pass.  I'd like to be at a place where any thing I use I know has been through one summer in my garage.

thank you for the reply and (I think) the enabling!!

58 minutes ago, ScottR said:

I've wanted to use mesquite myself. I've done a couple of carvings with it and it is a very handsome wood. Seriously hard too. We had a build here a few years back, a tele with a mesquite top. Very nice. It grows very crooked and twisted though, much cracks and voids, so nice pieces body sized are tricky to find. My favorite local hardwood store has giant slabs of it and even those may or may not have a section just right for a body. Great looking table tops though, or mantels. One could always take a twisty piece and fill the voids with turquoise or similar and  have something pretty special. And if it doesn't work out, grill a steak with it.

SR

hehe.  you got me there cause you were all serious right up to the last few words!  well, here in az I see mesquite logs offered everywhere.  that stuff grows like weeds here and in texas as I understand.  people sell wheelbarrels of it for firewood for $10 so... gonna keep my eye out for a decent sized piece... or perhaps take my changes on a big log.  worste case scenario I get a lifetime supply of salmon planks.

42 minutes ago, ScottR said:

Two different woods. Sipo is the mahogany, Sissoo is the rosewood.

Either one could be tempting, depending on what the board looked like.

SR

DOH, "you got your sissoo in my sipo..." 

"no, you got your sipo in my sissoo"

on a side note: have been reading about how mesquite is (apparently) a pretty decent guitar wood.  Have seen some guitars made out of figured mesquite and they are quite nice.  Was thinking... could be very versatile... play a few songs... wack off a few chips to throw on the barbie and cook up my steak.  Would def have to go with a tung oil based finish tho!  haha!

1 hour ago, ScottR said:

I was just thinking it might be the same type of wood.....I found it-Sissoo. That was what we were talking about last time.

https://arizonareport.com/sissoo-tree-arizona-desert/

 

SR

ok, yeah, all coming back to me now.  interesting that the other source I was just looking at is saying it's a type of mahog... but that source is saying rosewood.  wood species are so confusing!

On 1/26/2021 at 1:49 PM, Bizman62 said:

Ahh, I'm starting to understand... Some years ago there was a student at Crimson who built a 36 fret guitar "just because"... Not fan fretted, though, but making one isnt' much more difficult than trying to get the last fret slots just right. I guess Super Jumbos are out of the question...

on that washburn above... you'll notice the last frets they change fret wire.  much thinner after the 24th.  probably would need super thin fingers or fingernails to play it!!

guitar is looking lovely.  you have great taste in wood.  

afa lever hole... for me -I used my dremel... just made a little u shaped jig that would fit my (then) dremel base inside it.  at the time I could not find a suitable dremel bit... I think all I could find was 1/8" which is too wide.  knowing what I know now there are all sorts of cnc end mills that would be perfect size, but didn't know to search for that term at the time.  just wanted to mention for any who might be in the sm dillema.

On 1/26/2021 at 8:26 AM, ScottR said:

I'd guess that was that local (to you) rosewood we talked about a few months back. Was that sipo?

If so, I'd be tempted. I would say that is not mesquite. Mesquite does not have all that sapwood, it starts brown fight under the bark.

SR

I don't believe we spoke about this one... there was a guy a while back that had some that he also said was rosewood but was $50 for a 2" x 2' slab.  Funny how everyone in AZ thinks they have rosewood!  perhaps it's the sm guy but I don't think so, as I recall that guy was in a dif area.  this one is way over in queen creek.  

I guess my interest stems from the idea that I'd like to do an 'all native wood' build... but I imagine anything I get I'm going to want to have sitting for a year so.

there are a couple of live edge slab places nearby that have all local wood but they all want $8-$15/bd ft.  then again this is probably 8-10/bdft so... i dunno.  

7 hours ago, curtisa said:

I'm clearly not across the US/Aus vernacular differences! Sink outlet? Drain? Water escapey thingy?

I have a feeling we're heading towards classic ProjectGuitar thread derailment territory...

hehe, I liked it better when I thought it was toilet!

4 minutes ago, curtisa said:

Ah. Gotcha. That extra flute should i(n theory) allow an extra 33% more chips to be ejected for a given speed compared to the equivalent 2-flute cutter. The idea being that you should be able to increase your feedrate by the same factor and not cause any more stress on the bit. I'd still be cautious on going all the way up to 45IPM, but that's just me.

 

Cross-border differences in terminology maybe? Stepdown I would equate to the cutter moving down into the work piece in increments (eg stepping down the staircase). Stepover I'd consider the bit stepping over it's previous path to make the cut wider than it was on its last run (eg stepping over the skipping rope on the ground). Maybe the two terms are interchangeable depending on the software/country/time of day/direction the wind blows? Then again, I'm well south of the equator, water goes anticlockwise down the plughole and we're all standing on our heads

oh, wasn't going to try 45 - have a feeling that just be a waste of bit.  just good to know they advertise that.

stepdown - probably more my lack of cnc vocabulary... but then you said "plughole"... I knew exactly what you meant but have never heard it called a that!  then again, where I'm originally from we have a thing they call a 'bubbler' and Idk of any other place in where they call it that (water fountain?)  

4 minutes ago, curtisa said:

Had a quick look at my last job at it seems I used 0.3mm stepdowns between each pass, no ramps, plunge at 200mm/min, feed at 400mm/min, 24k RPM. In imperial land that equates to 0.0118" stepdown, 7.9IPM plunge, 15.7IPM feed. I was getting chips instead of dust, so it must have been within the 'zone' of correct feedrate at the time. Ramping would certainly ease the bit into the cut a bit more, but I'm taking such small nibbles at conservative feedrates I'm not experiencing any issues with the values I'm using. Single width slots are notoriously hard on the cutter though, so it pays to be gentle when you can afford to do so.

 

Hmmm. I get 0.03 x 0.022 dia x 2 (I assume 2 flutes in your case?) x 23000RPM = 30.36IPM? Probably not unreasonable for the bits I've used up till now (I think I might have gone up to 600mm/min in the past, which is 75% of that feedrate), but I am only chomping at DOC = half the bit diameter.

45IPM seems pretty aggressive at depth of cut = 1x bit diameter, but I guess that's down to how willing you are to try and push Precise Bits for a warranty claim if/when their bits don't perform to their quoted speeds

well, this is 3 flute so... we get to 33% more ie 45ipm. 

afa stepdown... I'm not familiar with that term.  in the software it divides up the final depth into chunks closest to my set depth... so if I go .01 depth and final depth is .07 it will make 7 passes.  

I was thinking that they probably would get a lot of push back on that if it wasn't accurate... but I don't need to push it that hard and not willing to risk the hassle.  If I can get up to 20ipm at .009 depth I'd be thrilled.  In mach3 I can override the feed rate and bump it up, but will likely try that once I have a number of bits on hand, and perhaps on some of the less expensive ones.  it's only $30 for this bit but... probably be wise to save it for ebony or other really hard stuff.

thank you very much for the input - most helpful!!

if I may... @MiKro, @curtisa... on a .022" bit what should I be picking for stepover?

precise bits got here today (fedex - impressive!).  according to their site...

initial feedrate for maple s/b .03 x diameter x #-of-flutes x spindle-rpm... setting spindle to 23k so 45ipm??!?  not trying that!

plunge rate for maple = 1 x diameter so .022... yeah I'll try .009 @23k with 10ipm as a starting point and see how that goes.  does look like a very nice bit with coating so... 

added ramps to my toolpath and set a plunge speed at 5ipm... "make it so #1".  will try later in the week as it's a chilly 50deg in my garage today!

39 minutes ago, curtisa said:

To-may-to. To-mah-to. What's a decimal point between friends?

 

That's actually not as silly as it sounds. You might struggle to cut them cleanly, but if any of your broken bits have snapped close to the shoulder where they start tapering up to meet the shank you might be able to press them in to service long enough to experiment with. I've used broken 0.4mm bits to complete engraving jobs in plastic where I just needed to complete the job rather than hold things up while I wait for new bits to arrive.

I hang on to them... in a pinch they might be ok.  I could see them being useful for very fine detail in very soft material... and for not wanting to dull my good ones.  pretty sure the dremel diamond wheel would chop em off good... then sharpen with the diamon knife sharpen rod.  they were pretty cheap so not concerned.  Got my $14 worth out of them in a lesson!!

1 hour ago, curtisa said:

I think your bits are too long and spindly for that kind of work. In the photo you have above it looks like there's a good 0.5" of flute length exposed below the shank of the bit. It won't take much to break such tiny bits with that much flute sticking out. The ones I'm using (mentioned in your other thread) only have a flute length of about 3mm. The shorter the effective cutting length the stronger the bit will be. @MiKro's suggestion about the depth of cut is also worth noting. Your original at 0.3" is 25% larger than the diameter of the bit, and will be pretty hard to sustain for long without breaking. General rule of thumb is to not exceed a depth of cut more than 50% of the bit diameter, ie 0.236"/2 = 0.118" DOC maximum.

You'll need as much spindle speed as you can muster with such small diameter bits too, as the rate at which the cutting edges engage with the material drops with smaller diameters (spin a bicycle wheel and think about how much faster the surface of the tyre appears to move compared to the axle).

yup on the too long.  was saying that earlier... those things are designed to be fragile.  the other bits I bought are very different and 'stubby' by comparison. 

think you meant .03" there... bit is .023" but yeah i get your drift.  actually in retrospect I think my doc may have been much less because as I recall it was some 7 passes to get one fret... and I think the tang depth was only .065 or something?  I am guessing that's a mistake on my part - perhaps my doc was more like .01?  Still those bits... just crapola.  they did cut some decent frets.. nice and clean and wasn't burning... but man was it slow.  the length of the cutter is too long and the design/taper of the bit is not ideal.  probably could cut them off and file them and they'd do 10x better.

afa 18k I chose that because it was suggested on the size of the bit by the tool database... wondered tho because my machine can do 24k.  will bump that up for the new bits.  

27 minutes ago, MiKro said:

Mike speed up the IPM to about 10-12 and change the DOC to about 0.010 max maybe even 0.005"

You can actually do it in one pass at full depth if you have the know how. but that requires hand writing the Gcode for every part of it. Even I still have problems with that one. It requires a slow ramping in acceleration and speed with the correct ramp i. Then once cutting it will require a ramped acceleration to the feed speed all with the correct spindle rpm.  A very tedious task. I know only a few that have made it work and they won't give away there code secrets.

MK

ramp... doh, good call do not think I added ramping to this (depth anyway).  Will def add that.  Interesting thoughts on the ramp of speed too... def every time the bit broke it was the first cut through.  just adding a depth ramp might improve that a lot.  that said... the kyocera bits have a very short cutting edge that is just a hair longer than ideal depth.  I have a feeling they are going to make things a lot better.

1 hour ago, Danstinyexplorer said:

Working on a truss rod cover. She has some rare earth magnets hidden inside so no screws needed. Going to do a neater one now I know the idea works, this one somehow turns it into Ming the Merciless’s guitar!

hmm, not sure I get the reference?

I suggest you have a look at the alvarez dana scoop!  one of my fav all time guitars... have always wanted to build one - on my someday list anyway. 

the downside to it... is that the neck is pretty thick right there... but you wouldn't get much better access. 

dano longhorn:

Also, there were some washburn 36 fret jobbies in the 80's that had crazy cuttaways. 

The prob you face - on a bolt neck the neck/body becomes pretty thick there... on a neck through - well you have to still worry about the neck pickup weakening the area.  for that reason many of those aforementioned didn't have a neck pickup at all.  

not all that hard to play at the 24th fret afa getting access... having fingers small enough to play the frets there - dif story.  

1 hour ago, MiKro said:

What end mills are you using for the fret slots?

What Feed, speed and DOC?

Not sure why you started on a good fret board?. Always test  new processes on scrap first.

Mike

well.... this was my "i don't care if I ruin it" piece... as it is the least attractive of all 4 I bookmatched.  Still mounted on the machine and machine is at the zero... just not touching it till I get new bits... then i will alter my toolpath based on the new bit size... and re-cut everything - she should be fine as I cut these slots a little thin with the plan to revisit them with the fret saw..  I will be using one of the other one's for either build as the wood is a better match, but am hoping this one makes it through fine for some future build.    

with this bit.... the speed was set to 3 in/min.  the depth was set to .03.  router was running at 18k.  if I bumped the speed up to 5in/min... break a bit.  These were just test bits... uxcell (not exactly synonymous with quality), so didn't have high expectations (they were cheap).  I've ordered a few kyocera from drillman and one from precise bits as well... should be here thursday.  I'm guessing I will up my speed to 10 in/min, double my depth... and start there.  Could probably raise up the spin to 24k... i dunno.

27 minutes ago, ScottR said:

Looking good Mike, and some really nice recon.

SR

thank you sir.  yes, that recon has surpassed all expectations.  love it.  going to be hard to match that color in stain... will have to grab my bootstraps!!

love the idea of native texas wood.  have been kicking around an idea of doing that myself with native az wood.  

looking fwd to build pics.

1 hour ago, Invader Zim said:

Looks like Mesquite.

that is a def possibility.  didn't realize mesquite has that short grain but it does as evident in the pic below.  mesquite around here... is everywhere.  have def seen cheaper sources than this for that.

"is an African wood that is considered to be the closest, aesthetically, to Genuine Mahogany "

"Aesthetically, the wood is similar, also, to its African first cousin, Sapele "

dead ringer?

saw this on my facebook feed... 

"$100 each Live edge Indian Rosewood slabs. First and last pictures are a finished bench made from the same tree(not for sale) 80"x20"x2.5"--sizes vary "

def a lot different than the rosewood we're used to seeing... in fact I don't think this is indian rosewood at all.  Indian rosewood reportedly does grow in az but this looks like sipo to me.  it's a (apparently) rare form of mahogany.  also grows here in az.

some of those edges in the 2nd pick look like rot to me... what do you think?  haggle him down?  throw $100 cash at him as fast as you can?

some shots of my birdseye for the neck blanks.  not blow your mind but, but not bad looking at all.  my experience with birdseye so far has been it is rock solid stable.  the boards these came from, have been sitting for a while now and are still perfectly flat.  planed off some to see if I'll have any movement and will check again in a few days.

second one isn't nearly as figured... but perfect straight grain and some flame.  I think I'll try and get some more of the straight grain in the profile of the one above... but it's hard to not want to get that beautiful birdseye in there.

well now... an hour of work on the dremel+diamond wheel and we're almost there.  Just have to wait for the diamond jeweler's saw blade to get her the rest of the way.  stuff is really beautiful.  picture hardly does it justice.  def want to wear the respirator with this stuff... just a plume of smoke coming off it while I was grinding.  very fine dust.  

not sure what bit I might use to plane it down... probably going to need something specialty.  Stuff would likely make short work of any regular bit.  

made a test fretboard... had to iron out some bugs.  9.5 to 16 compound radius toolpath kept getting too close to the nylon bolts and sending them flying... so had to resupply on those today.  

unfortunately the fret slot bits I have are not great... took about 3 hours to mill those 5 slots so just stopped her!  slots follow the radius beautifully so that worked out well (thanks for the tip @MiKro!!). 

could not get the speed over 3in/min without breaking at a depth of .03.  as you can see... the cutting edge is way too long for this diameter.  Got some quality bits on the way so... will take another crack at this by next weekend.  anyone know the short version of how to restart mach3 at a specific line?

bookmatched fretboard is hard to see here... but looking pretty respectable.  joint is invisible even after radius so thrilled with that.

9 minutes ago, ScottR said:

It happens. Wasn't there a garden gnome that  famously went missing and ended up sending pictures and post cards from around the country?

SR

hehe, I remember that storry well.  must be nice to travel like that!!