Bass Amp Discussion

[Primal]

So Drak's thread about a metal rig has got me thinking about my bass setup. Right now I am running through a Trace Elliot Commando 100w head and an off-brand 15" cab (can't even remember where I ordered it from). I'm wondering about what area I should focus on -- power or tone. We all know that compared to guitarists, bassists need a more powerful amp to match a guitarist's volume. On to the question.

Should I focus on power or tone? Basically, I'm wondering if I should work on getting the tone I like and rely on a PA system for gigs to supply me with the volume I need, or try to get a 300w or so amp.

I'm thinking the former. Right now my idea is to work on my tone. I'm thinking about buying a Tech 21 SansAmp DI to help me get the sound I need. I've read a ton of review on this stomp box, all of which praise it (average sound rating of 9.1 with 100 reviews).

After I get that, I really need to get a new amp and cab. My Trace Elliot I think would be plenty powerful enough if I'm going to rely on a PA, but it has some sort of grounding problem. It will start buzzing pretty badly, but all I have to do is hit it and it will quit. Another thing is my cab. Just having 1 15" speaker isnt cutting it. I'm looking at getting a Madison 4 x 10" cab to use with my 15".

Any advice or comments are greatly appreciated.

[bluespresence]

Without getting into a "this brand is better than that brand" discussion.....

I would definitely recommend the 4x10 with your 15. I started with a 15 then added a 2x10 and it still didn't quite do it (although it was nice). Once I added the 4x10 with a 15 and a decent head I was all set for the tone I wanted and all the volume I would ever need.

My current rig:

Ampeg SVT3-PRO

Ampeg 4x10 Cab

Fender 115 Pro (with US Made Eminence 15)

Boss TU-2 tuner pedal

I'm not a pedal guy.....I like a clean bass sound.

[Primal]

Thanks for the info. Right now, here is the setup that I am looking at:

My current rig -- Trace Elliot 100w head and 15" cab

Tech 21 SansAmp DI (pedal or rack mounted, not sure)

BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer

Might add that 4x10" cab if I have enough money afterwards. I'm not much of a pedal guy, but I have to use my Zoom 506II to get a decent sound out of my amp (without anything, I sound like sh*t). I'm trying to eliminate having to use it. One thing I really like about it is its chorus/flange effects. Since they sound digital anyway, I mind not having an analog pedal for those.

I was just thinking about this... if I'm going to get some rack mounted equipment, whats the best way to power it? Do they have a standard 3-prong plug for a wall socket or do they need a special power source?

Edited December 22, 2004 by Primal

[Scott Rosenberger]

You could always use the slave out on the head you have and get a larger power amp

[skibum5545]

I would definitely get a nice 4x10 to supplement, or even replace the 15. If the 15 is so bad that it is actually a hindrance to your tone, then no point keeping it around. However, that bass response would be nice if you can still get your tone out of it.

There's also the issue of transportation. Do you have the muscle, manpower, or transportation for a head, a 15 and a 4x10? I know I don't! As it is, my 4x10, head and bass only barely fit into my car, and it takes two people to tote the 4x10 anywhere significant. Just another thing to consider.

If you're into bass with effects, then you're 100w should be powerful enough. As long as you're not looking for that crystal clear, distortion-free yet loud bass sound (a la reggae etc.) you can afford to push your amp a little harder. Through the effects, a little distortion won't be terribly noticeable, especially if it's that sweet tube distortion.

If you're looking for power on a budget, however, and decide to replace your head, check out the Behringer 300W head. Cheap, sounds good, and has a very uncolored tone that would lend itself nicely to external effects.

Good luck with the search; it sound like you've got a good start already.

Just for the record, my rig:

Hartke 3500 Head

Gallien-Krueger 4x10 cab (Backline series)

(Occasionally) Danelectro Auto Wah pedal

I'm with bluespresence on the whole clean bass thing, too. The Auto Wah is to be used only -very- sparingly.

Edited December 23, 2004 by skibum5545

[Primal]

If the 15 is so bad that it is actually a hindrance to your tone, then no point keeping it around. However, that bass response would be nice if you can still get your tone out of it.

For the price, I think my cab is excellent. I think I paid $90 for it new. It has served me well. It's not that the cab is so bad, its just that I can't get the tone I am wanting with JUST a 15" speaker.

There's also the issue of transportation. Do you have the muscle, manpower, or transportation for a head, a 15 and a 4x10?

Transportation isn't a problem at all. I've got a nice Ford Taurus station wagon (aka the Shaggin' Wagon!). I could easily fit the amp in the back and my bass in the backseat.

If you're looking for power on a budget, however, and decide to replace your head, check out the Behringer 300W head. Cheap, sounds good, and has a very uncolored tone that would lend itself nicely to external effects.

I would like to eventually replace my head, simply due to the whole grounding/buzzing problem it has. I have looked at that Behringer head but didn't know if they were any good. Thanks for the info.

[bluespresence]

Hey Primal....I just realized I have an almost new 2x10 with a 4x6 horn (100W)sitting here that I only used in my studio. The going price is VERY reasonable - less than $100 including shipping if you're in the states - about $75 if you're in the midwest since shipping is cheaper the closer you are. PM me if you're interested. I'm also getting rid of my Peavey 115 Combo (300W) but I'm not giving that away

[lovekraft]

If you like the basic tone of your current rig, try a 4-10 cabinet before you do anything else! There's a reason why everybody agrees on this part. You may find that it's all you need - tweak it with the BBE, and I think you'll be fairly happy. Then you can add more power and more cabs as needed for the venue you're playing in.

And if you get a chance, check out the Tech 21 SansAmp RBI preamp with a clean power amp (ca. 300 watts or so) and a decent cabinet.

[Primal]

If you like the basic tone of your current rig, try a 4-10 cabinet before you do anything else! There's a reason why everybody agrees on this part. You may find that it's all you need - tweak it with the BBE, and I think you'll be fairly happy. Then you can add more power and more cabs as needed for the venue you're playing in.

And if you get a chance, check out the Tech 21 SansAmp RBI preamp with a clean power amp (ca. 300 watts or so) and a decent cabinet.

I will probably end up doing that. One question: How much better is a 4x10" than a 2x10"? I'm looking at both and wondering if the 4x10" will really be that much better. I'm also looking at the Tech 21 SansAmp RBI preamp and the BBE sonic maximizer to add to my rig now. In a few months I will probably have enough cash to get a power amp.

[bassman]

2x10 is much easier to transport and handle than a 4x10, two 2x10's is the way to go, although it is more expensive. I really think that you need much more power than 100 watts, you will soon be unimpressed with the volume you gain by adding a second cabinet to your rig if you simply are not putting enough volume into your cabs. While I have way to many cabinets I have found that out of the variety I do I have I can get a fair amount of volume and some killer tone with my aguilar GS112 (sound of a 15 in a smaller package) and Eden 210 XST powered by an Ampeg SVT Pro. This 2x10 and 1x12 package does not break your back and can even be cut down to one cab for small/quiet jams. Again, use a powerful amp- I push about 1000 watts (RMS) through the 2x10, 1x12 setup, 100 watts through such a setup would not cover much ground in any situation.

Gear-

AMps

QSC 2400?

Ampeg SVT 4 Pro (1600 watt amp)

Cabs

Ampeg HLF 410 Pro (sweet but a back and car breaker for a 4x10- size like a 6x10)

Eden 210 XST

SWR workingmans 410T (a terd compared to the others)

Peavey Black widow 15"

Aguilar GS112

Crate 60 combo- currently disassembled (a real piece of junk) got it for free though

[Primal]

Ya, I simply don't have the cash to get a complete higher powered setup, so I am going to add bit by bit. I am gonna start with either a 2x10 or a 4x10, a SansAmp DI or RBI, and a Sonic Maximizer. From there I'm gonna get a power amp (300-400w probably) and another cab.

[lovekraft]

...How much better is a 4x10" than a 2x10"?...

I find that a 4-10 is ideal, and puts out more bottom than a pair of 2-10s - there's something to be said about portablilty, but a bigger cabinet simply gives you more bottom, IME.

If you're short on cash, the first logical purchase would be the BBE - just putting it in your F/X loop and doing some tweaking will add definition and clarity to your current setup. Don't get carried away, though - "less is more" definitely applies here, and diming the knobs (especially the bass) generally sounds muddy or metallic. I couldn't believe the difference the Maximizer made in my first Hartke head, and I've been using it in every rig I've had since!

[Primal]

Thanks for the info lovekraft. I had figured that my 15 would provide all of the low end I will need while the pair of 2x10s I will eventually have will give my sound more punch. I will definately be adding the BBE to my arsenal ASAP, though.

[bassman]

Regarding 15's vs. 10's. My 2x10 xst eden will put out lower bass than most any 15's. Any My ampeg pro 410 hlf puts out lows like a 15" subwoofer in a PA- yet it retains its tightness and also has the punch of 10's. Bigger does not always mean lower, at least when you cross into different series or performance levels of cabinets. Meaning a 15 peavey is going to go lower than a comparable priced 2x10 peavey cab.

[Primal]

That may be so, but I was just saying that I will continue to use my 15 until I can get a 4x10" cab. If, by some chance the 2x10" that I will be getting DOES put out more lows than the 15", then I'm sure I will use just that. I can't imagine wanting MORE lows than my 15" puts out now, given the fact that it gives me too much as it is. That is one of the reasons for me getting a cab with 10" drivers -- to help even out the frequencies and get a better sound.