Oil Finishes

[spiritwalker]

Hi,

I'm in the middle of my first project and am using a strat copy as my guinea pig. I wanted to produce something which has an 'organic' feel about it, so instead of the usual burst finish using sprays, I decided to scorch the burst onto the guitar using a small blowtorch. I also used it to darken the grain at the same time. I must admit for a first time effort I'm pretty pleased with the results so far.

Now I'm at the point of finishing it, I was thinking about using a tung-based oil, or something similar, as it seems more in keeping with the organic feel. Before I start I've a few questions

Firstly, has anyone tried this before...and if so does it work?

Secondly, as it's an oil am I right in assuming that I don't need to use a sanding

sealer?

Would it be wise to stain the wood or does the oil usually darken the colour of the wood itself?

Thanks

[bassman]

Oil will work, no you do not need a sanding sealer, yes it will darken the wood and give a warmer hue.. Those more familiar with finshing techniques will tell you that pure tung oil is not that good. I use Sam Maloof's (one of the world's best woodworkers) formula, it is a combination of tung oil, boiled linseed oil and polyeurathane. It works really well, it give the look and feel of oil and seals the wood with poly. You wipe it on, then wipe it off- let dry 24 hours- then repeat another four times (these simple steps will give you a VERY EVEN finish) It is available from highland hardware, you do not need the wax/oil stuff, only the poly/oil is needed.

[spiritwalker]

Thanks for the info, I checked out Sam Maloofs website too.

Unfortunately his products aren't available in the UK, but I reckon it's possible to produce something very similar from raw ingredients

Thanks again

Mike

[westhemann]

if you run a search on this forum on "tung oil" you will find all the information you need.

heck,a little internet research would have told you that MANY guitar makers use it

[erikbojerik]

I use Sam Maloof's (one of the world's best woodworkers) formula, it is a combination of tung oil, boiled linseed oil and polyeurathane. It works really well, it give the look and feel of oil and seals the wood with poly.

Bassman, that's interesting, I'd never heard of that particular mixture before.

If you apply it to an open-grained wood like mahogany, is that enough to fill the pores or would you still get that open-grained kind of finish?

How do you buff it afterward?

Does it give you a mirror-type finish, or less glossy?

[javacody]

With any oil finish, unless you sand the oil into the wood (rifle stock makers do this) over many, many coats, you will not fill the pores.

Now, back to the different kinds of "oil" finishes. Here are the three rub on type finishes I've used.

Pure, unadulterated, raw, tung oil (Behlen's). Good stuff. I like it, even though it has the consistency of warm honey. MMM, warm honey... anyway, it is quite a bit of work, and many folks (not me) thin it down with Mineral Spirits. It takes about a day to cure (depending on humidity) and (like with most oil or hand rubbed finishes), after each coat is dry, you give it a light rubdown with 0000 steel wool. Almost forgot, Pure Tung oil has an, er... unique smell to it that some folks find slightly offensive. It goes away after about a month. I kind of like the smell (but then again, I also like the smell of gasoline. )

Next, we have Waterlox. This is a Tung Oil Phenolic resin based varnish. Really good stuff. I finished my first strat copy with it and I'm very happy. You can order directly from the waterlox.com website. If memory serves, you can apply a thin, hand rubbed layer every 4 hours, and they also have a gloss version that is fairly glossy and gives you decent results even with hand-rubbing.

Last but not least, we have Minwax, a special formula for hand rubbing (can't remember exactly what it was called, but have a look at the minwax site and you should be able to find it). I was very happy with the satin version of this. I used it on a Large Headstock Fender style neck. Used satin on the back and gloss on the front of the headstock. The satin didn't really color the wood much at all. The gloss did give the wood a nice amber tone, however, it was hard to get it to level, it looked all wavy when I was done. I would recommend the satin min-wax for maximum protection in a hand rubbed finish with the Waterlox coming in a close second. The only drawback to Poly finishes (which the Minwax is), is that each layer does not melt into the previous layer (Tung Oil does, as does Nitro), so if you sand through a layer, you are basically screwed, have to strip the guitar, and start over (once is enough, believe me, it sucks).

Now, things I haven't tried but have read good things about include:

* Formby's "Tung Oil" (its actually a varnish)

* Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil

* Danish Oil

I would stay away from Linseed oil, as even when "boiled" (chemical dryers are added), it never seems to fully dry. Tung oil is different and does fully dry. If you do decide to go with Linseed oil, do what violin makers do, and expose it to UV rays (sunligh) as apparently, this helps it to cure faster.

I've done quite a bit of Internet research on oil and hand rubbed finishes. They are a lot of work, take your time (patience is key), and keep your working area well ventilated.

[Alexander]

I used tru-oil on my guitar, and it's very good. Very thin, but I put about 20 coats on over the course of a month or two and it's a really nice finish. I've noticed it's continued to darken the wood long after I applied it, and it gets glossier the more your arm rubs against the body etc. It's really nice! It's available in the UK and it's cheap too.

[fishgiven]

I dropped in today looking for info on rub/wipe finishes and found this string.

I have used the Pure Tung Oil on a body before and it was indeed, very earthy! It also was in satin finish and smelled like Hazelnut. I love what it did for the neck.

I will go chase down the Waterlox stuff. I don't want to have to go with spray equipment.

Thanks!

Edited January 15, 2005 by fishgiven

[unclej]

just to add my two cents worth...i've been a cabinet maker and wood sculptor for around 20 years. i've been building guitars for about five. i've used just about all of the commercial products available and have actually come up with a formula of my own that works extremely well and is cheaper in the long run than the commercially available products.

it started with an article that i read on hand rubbed furniture finishes. one of the contributing writers offered his formula called "ltv". simply equal parts of linseed oil, turpentine and varnish. i used it and it works well for some applications. for instance it's excellent for finishing turned bowls while they're still on the lathe. the heat from the friction gives the finished bowl a great satin patina.

i tried it on guitars and it worked well but it took longer than i liked for the turpentine to evaporate and the smell to disappear from the guitar and it seems that it took the linseed oil quite a while to cure. so i changed the formula to equal parts satin polyeurathane, varnish and mineral spirits. i can't tell the difference between this finish and the "ltv" and it cures well with no lingering odor.

if you'd like to try it you just flood your wood with a generous amount, rub it into the wood with a cloth or you hands. (i like the latter) let it sit for five minutes or so and wipe off. you can apply additional coats any time you want to. i usually apply 3 to 4 coats a day, let it cure for a day and then add one or two more. on the final coat i use a small pad of cloth dampened with the material and pretty much burnish it. after it's cured i apply a good quality floor wax and buff well.

here's a link to a photo of one of my latest guitars and i think it shows pretty well how this finish looks. all of the grain of the walnut shows through and more importantly you can feel it. not that i sit around feeling up my guitars but....ok, yes i do.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867...yofP9230009.JPG

anyway, give it a try. i think you'll like it.

[RGGR]

Pure, unadulterated, raw, tung oil (Behlen's). Good stuff. I like it, even though it has the consistency of warm honey. MMM, warm honey... anyway, it is quite a bit of work, and many folks (not me) thin it down with Mineral Spirits. It takes about a day to cure (depending on humidity) and (like with most oil or hand rubbed finishes), after each coat is dry, you give it a light rubdown with 0000 steel wool. Almost forgot, Pure Tung oil has an, er... unique smell to it that some folks find slightly offensive. It goes away after about a month. I kind of like the smell (but then again, I also like the smell of gasoline.

I recently bought some raw tung-oil too (to finish my guitar neck).....I test rubbed it on piece of scrap wood, and yes......I was little surprised by smell too.

I like the look of it though.......very pure, very clean, and do like the idea of using "natural" product on neck.