Confused About Volutes

[SawDust_Junkie]

OK guys, I have done some searches and found a few threads here discussing volutes used on angled pegheads. I think I understand what a volute is and the puipose for it. What I am confused about is how the volute made or "incorporated into the neck to peghead transition ?

Is the volute a seperate piece of wood cut to the same angle as the transition and then shaped when the neck profiling is done ? Or, is the volute actually cut in when doing the scarf joint ? I don't see how this could be done as the scarf joint is simply a piece of wood cut at an angle and then the pieces reversed and glued together to achieve the backward angle, right ?

I am confused how the volute is actually created. Could someone explain this to me and maybe do a crude, quick drawing to illustrate it. Like I said, I have searched here and could not find any threads that really cleared this up for me, so if anyone can guide me to a thread that details this, I will more than happy to do some more reading on my own.

[rhoads56]

[Setch]

The volute is shaped by leaving a 'bulge' where the neck joint the headstock. I shaped mine with a drumsander (first image) then a rasp and scraper (second image).

[rhoads56]

i do it the opposite way, rasps + files, then drum sander.

Volutes are SERIOUSLY sexy.

[SawDust_Junkie]

Thanks guys ! I'm still a little fuzzy here. On the examples that both of you showed, are these scarf jointed or are these one piece neck/pegheads. I am just a little unsure about how you "leave a little bulge" at the joint.

Do you have to cut the pehead thicker at the point of the joint and then cut the angle into it. I was under the impression that I would just be able to take the initial neck blank and cut the end off at the proper angle to achieve the scarf. I don't see how I would be able to "leave a little bulge" doing it like this.

From setch describes, it seems to me that I would have to cut the peghead out of a thcker piece of wood that the neck and shape it down to my final thickness in order to leave more wood at the scarf joint joint. Then make a cut at the same angle as I had cut my neck blank where the peg head is thicker. Does this sound right.

Also, are volutes usually used whem doing a scarf ? Or are they usually used when using a one piece neck/peghead just to add strength as a one piece is generally considered weaker at the transition. It seems I also have read that a volute is used when the neck or peghead is thinner than most standard designs.

[rhoads56]

The headstock on mine starts at about 25mm thick. It ends up around 15mm thick. The top photos are not scarf jointed, the bottoms ones are.

Volutes add strength no matter what. They look more "custom" too.

[Moreau]

Ive wondered about this, so im curious if anyone had a drawn up pic, showing join lines. Makes it easier to see/learn. Hope im not asking too much. thanks

[Setch]

You can see the joint on mine. It's scarfed with glued on ears to make up extra width. Here's a rough sketch.

I think the volute adds strength in terms of impact injury, but I also think it helps make the neck stiffer around the headstock transistion, an area which is pretty vulnerable to flexing, especially if you have a head end trussrod adjustment. And as Perry noted, they look very cool.

[SawDust_Junkie]

Thanks setch ! That drawing really cleared up what I was confused about. I can see how it is done now. You do have to start with the peghead thinner than the neck blank and the volute is simply more wood left at the joint than the the rest of the neck when doing the profile shaping of the back of the neck.

[rhoads56]

Once again, i do it exactly opposite to Setch. Imagine my fretboards are on setches headstock, and thats how my scarf/volutes are.

[Moreau]

Which method is better to use? rhoads' or the one drawn? I have a BC rich neck with a joint like Rhoads'. thanks

[DannoG]

I do mine more like Rhoads, my reasoning being that with the thickness of the fretboard overlaying the joint, it is extremely strong. If you have a headstock veneer that is more than a thin sliver it will also add strength at the joint.

[Setch]

I don't think there's any particular advantage to either approach, provided your technique is good. Like Danno said, the approach he and Perry use is supported by the fretboard. I use a nice solid headstock veneer or RW or ebony, and laminate ears onto the sides of the head which strengthen my joint. My way also has the advantage of being hidden behind the guitar tuners so it's easy to make it inconspicuous, but as you can see from Perry's pics, with good jointing his technique is practically invisible too! Either way is tougher and more wood efficient that a one piece, so go for whatever you like.

Oh, and to avoid confusion, my pic is flawed - I drew the volute too far along the neck shaft. Look at Perry's side view, and you'll see the peak of the volute actually sits under the nut area, or just past it on the headstock side.

[erikbojerik]

Why do a scarf joint? To me, I'd always rather make a laminated neck blank with the headstock angle incorporated (like Perry's first few photos). You cut out the laminates in profile-fashion from flat-sawn stock, then when you glue 'em up you have a quartersawn blank complete with tilt-back headstock.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never seen the point of doing a scarf joint.

[rhoads56]

Whats the point of wasting wood with a laminated neck if the client/you/me/someone doesnt want it??

You need three times the amount of wood for a laminated neck, than you do for a scarf joint.

[Maiden69]

Perry, is strenght the same? I know it's said that the glue joint can be stronger then the actual wood itself, I have never believed this, but I know it's rather strong, but if you were going to construct one neck for your self, not taking into consideration if you like the laminate or not. Which one you will do? Scarf or a laminate. Same for Setch? Does it matter, or not that much?

[Setch]

I was composing a reply whilst Perry posted - what he said!

I use a scarf because it's much more economical on wood, and allows you to use smaller, narrower or shallower stock. Also, with a veneered headstock you can achieve the look of a seamless neck (which some folks like) without the stregth problems.

Maiden, a scarf (properly executed) is always stronger than a one piece neck. Comparing the strength of a laminated neck and a scarfed one is harder. If the grain happens to line up in the angled area of the head a laminated neck could end up not much stronger than a one piece, but I think this would be a pretty rare and unlucky occurence. If the grain ends up slightly staggered it should be very strong, but I still don't know whether it would be tougher than a scarfed head.

The thing that matters isn't really which is stronger, but that both are 'strong enough'. Which I'd opt for depends on how much of my chosen wood I have, and the design of the guitar. I certainly wouldn't opt for one over the other on purely practical grounds, and I'm certain Perry wouldn't be happy to switch bewteen the two systems if he felt one was inferior.

[SawDust_Junkie]

I would agree eric, that a laminate neck with the peghead angle cut out would be a better option if not for the wood waste involved. You will have to use a thicker neckblank to it that way, and the scrap after cutting it would only be usable for splicing ears on the headstock. I guess that is why alot of people do it. Especially whne looking at an extra inch or so of Mahogany. Even so, I wouldn't think it would add more than a board foot or so to you wood.

So, you are probably right, that your method would be best, but a volute would probably be a good idea even with that method.

on edit:

After reading setch's post I rethought my post and I see now what he is saying about the amount of wood required. A laminate would require a considerably larger amount of wood. So that method could greatly increase the cost of material.

(Please excuse the ignorance of a newbie)

Edited January 6, 2005 by Fender4me

[Maiden69]

Thanks for the answer Setch. I understand now. I was kinda confused that the laminate was stronger since I seen it a lot in bass, and the tension there is greater that on guitars. I am on the drawing boards right now and I plan on making my 1st neck so I will take this into consideration.