Tony Balls Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 I'm someone who knows my way around guitar repair just fine, but know very little about finishing. And it just so happens that i've taken on a new project which will end up in me having to refinish a guitar. So give me some help! What i've got is an odd Epiphone Firebird project from (I believe) the 80's. It's essentially the same as a Gibson Firebird, with neck through construction and all that, but it came stock with some sort of top-route tremolo. And so what I now have is a great Firebird with a hole in it where I feel a tune-o-matic bridge should be mounted. I'll be filling the old trem cavity with a Mahogany block, and I don't have any problem with that. I should be able to do it just fine. The problem is that once the hole is plugged, i'll have to sand the surrounding area smooth. So then i'll have something to refinish. Now, as you may know, the center section on Firebirds is raised by about 1/8". So I was initially thinking about only refinishing this raised portionn, trying to match the rest of the finish, but the original finish is sunburst, and I think that may be too difficult for me to match. So that brings me to the next course of action, which is to strip and refinish the whole thing. This is something i've never done before, so i'm looking for advice. First off, in everyone's opinion, what's the best way to strip a guitar and neck like this and why? Sanding? Invest in a heat gun? Chemicals??? Any tips to go along with each method? I figure that once I have it completely de-finished, i'll tackle the refinish. I'll probably do something simple for this, like a cherry stain, or just a clear coat. I'll worry about that when I get to it. So......anybody have pointers or thoughts?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 If you've never refinished a guitar before, you have bit off one super-sized project, and I'm telling you that in my experience, one's first refin usually doesn't come out as an A+ job, it's something that takes time to master. You have a -very- large project in front of you, and by the time you're done, you could probably buy another guitar with the money you'll dump into this one. Just telling you now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Balls Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 (edited) Well.........I should clarify. I'm not concerned with getting a gallery piece out of this by ANY means. I'm looking to make a players guitar that looks moderately nice. That's why i'm not so concerned with the actual finishing of it, but more with the stripping of it, as I think THAT'S what will be more difficult to me. Edited February 3, 2005 by Tony Balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 What about a piece of veneer over the raised part? Might look cool. You could use almost any kind of wood you can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Balls Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Well, my answer to that would be: why? I know that i'm filling it and that the seam will surely show. To me that's no big deal I'm just looking for the most simple way to finish the guitar so that there's no bare wood areas on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Just a wacky idea that popped in my head for lack of a useful answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_ed Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Some kind of inlay or marquetry on the block might be cool. Guitar Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Balls Posted February 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 I don't mean to come off like a dick, here, but what part of the question does everyone not understand? I'm asking what the best strip method is? Or what's recommended by you, anyway. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 My 2 öres (that's like "Swedish cents", in case you didn't know). Keep in mind I've never refinished a guitar. The following part is only backed up by what I've read, and a little bit of experience from other types of finishing work. Chemical stripping To me it seems a lot of people have trouble with this, either not getting the right stripper for their type of finish, or getting blotches left over, and having to sand anyways. Heat gun I've got experience with this on guitar finishes, but I've been using a heat gun to strip some kind of finish off of the family's boat several times (have to redo it every year). My experience from that tells me it's good way to go, it's pretty simple and rather effective. Just make sure you don't burn the wood. Sanding It's gonna take a while, but if you're patient and don't want to invest in a heat gun, this is IMO the way to go. Pretty much fool proof (unlike chemical stripping, it seems), but takes time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Balls Posted February 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Well.....time is what I have plenty of, so that's good. I believe it's that newer finish that manufacturers have been putting on their guitar since the 80's. Polyurethane, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie_rnfr Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Sanding will be your best bet, especially if you will just be sanding the raised area. EDIT!!! up with a chemical stripper where you don't want it will turn your slight hangover into a migrane. Same said of a heat gun. Paitence, a flat block and going 100 grit to 240 grit paper will present the best results. Although to do the initial finish removal, careful use of a random orbit sander can speed things up. But you would have to go back to that flat block for the rest. Then you'd just have to mask off that area for finish. Although the Mahogany veneer would make it seamless. Poly has been used since the 60's. Lacquer is mostly only for high end work from most maunfactures. It takes less work to get a high gloss out of a poly than a lacquer. And you can be kinda lazy, apply poly thick and get your gloss on the buffing wheel. being new is no excuse for ignoring the rules on foul language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Robbie, please don't use profanity. You agreed not to when you joined the forums, and it seems very unprofessional to me. I would use a heat gun if you're going to use an opaque finish. It really doesn't take very long to strip an entire guitar, and it's not very difficult once you get the technique down. You'll have to do some sanding still, but it won't be nearly as bad as trying to sand through a thick poly finish. And all poly finishes I've seen are THICK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Balls Posted February 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Thanks, both Robbie and Devon for your input. Here's some further interrogation: Regarding a heat gun: 1. If i'm stripping the entire guitar with heat, i'd imagine there's some sort of special precaution taken when doing the neck and any spot near the fretboard? Does one just stick with sanding these areas, or is the glue used in such applications more resiliant to the heat? Also, anyone have any reccomendations for heat guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I'll wade in here. Stay away from the heat guns with this one. Use a chemical stripper. Use a semi-paste. It stays where you put it. Brush on about a half a square foot at a time. Dont't mess with it, let it work. Watch your time and get a feel for how long it takes to eat down to the wood. Just do it a square at a time. Be careful around any purfling. If it's plastic you don't want any on it. Scrub it off with "00" steel wool in the direction of the grain. After you're done with the whole thing go back over with a light coat on the whole thing to even it out. Let it set for a little while and take it off with "0000" steel wool and light elbow grease. This should give you a clean slate to work with. Read your instructions, the funny stuff written on the can that we all usually ignore, and see if your particular brand needs to be neutralized with anything. Do this all in a well ventilated area, not a basement. Wear stripping gloves that are available at the same place that you get the stripper. Wear goggles. If you don't like toxic chemicals the citrus based strippers are a lot slower, but they do just as good a job and you don't have toxic waste dump in your yard issues. Let it sit for a day after you're done to thoroughly dry. I can strip one of these puppies in about an hour or so. Three hours with citrus.I can sand one in a whole lot more and I always make myself more work with the sandpaper method. Buy spray cans of finish from Reranch or someone similar. If you're doing a burst you can hide some of the repair by shading it the dark color. Hope this helps. Oh, I make funiture for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Use a chemical stripper. you may have a tough time with that.from the guitar mentioned i think it is probably a polyeurethane finish...i have never found a good chemical stripper for polyeurethane...and even worse for polyester but i don't strip many guitars,i generally build from scratch,so maybe someone else knows of a good stripper for polyeurethane. BUT i would never use a stripper around plastic binding. http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...=0entry167968 oh..and read what lgm posted here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 (edited) I've used all of the above for stripping guitars. Most times it takes all of them to strip any one guitar. Either way, you will definitely wind up using sandpaper. I usually start with a heat gun and putty knife/scraper to get the thicker areas down and/or apply a chemical stripper and give it a good scraping, then sand. If you are going to go the sanding route I would recommend wetsanding. Drysanding any type of paint finish will result in having to use LOTS of sandpaper. As you build up heat from friction the finish will melt down and gunk up your sandpaper bigtime. So start with a reasonably coarse grit, like 100 or 120 wet/dry paper (not garnet) and dip in water to carry away the finish and keep things cool. You'll find yourself hitting wood in no time and you would very likely only need a couple pieces of sandpaper to do the entire job! . Remember to stick with rigid blocks on the flat areas and foam blocks (wrapped with sandpaper) on the curves. Edited February 8, 2005 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 I have to strip polyester, poyurethane and conversion varnish all of the time. Kleen Strip brand KS-3 cuts through all of these and epoxies to boot in no time. Actually in about fifteen minutes for the thickness laid down on guitars. Sanding is a great idea as long as you can stop exactly at the wood. You wind up having to deal with taking out the scratches from the coarse paper that you have to use to get through all of these lovely modern finishes leaves. If you want to sand finish off with a fine grit paper have at it, but this stuff is used because it is reistant to scratching. That and it builds really fast. REmeber, to get an even finish you need to do exactly the same thing to everything that shows. If you sand through anywhere you have to sand everywhere because the wood has aged,usually darkening, and you may also have stain that you will cut through. I don't want to sound like a know it all but I 've been building and refinishing furniture professionally since 1965 and do have a bit of experience with this stuff. Just trying to keep someone else from screwing up a nice axe the way I did when I started out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Kleen Strip brand KS-3 cuts through all of these and epoxies to boot in no time. be careful...alot of set neck guitars are epoxied together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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