GregP Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 So, I'm back to probably (I'm waffling... gr... I hate waffling) using the TOM bridge on my guitar instead of the Hipshot. I've always planned to use string-through behind the bridge, instead of stop tailpiece. I want the holes to be more or less "invisible" (for lack of a better word), ie. I don't want them all chromey or gold. So I was planning on recessing some string-through ferrules on the top of the guitar as well as on the back. To maintain a reasonably 'invisible' appearance on the black finished top, I want to use black ferrules. Will the black finish eventually scrape off and get all shitty looking from string friction and other wear? If so, is there a way I should install them so that they'll be easy to swap? Is there a particular 'style' of ferrule that anybody would recommend over the others? Optionally, I was going to put a small strop of ebony just in front of the ferrules so that the main contact would be on the wood rather than the metal edge; however, I don't know how long it would take for the strings to bite through the wood or if there's something I can do to prevent said 'bite'. Opinions? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Hey, I LIKE that! Ferrules on the top, too! The black chrome ferrules will scratch but mostly under the string so I would live with it. As far as removing, a machine screw tap will pull ferrules quite easily but it damages them in the process. I use the Warmoth ferrules(I think they are 3/8") for no particular reason. I think the real issue on the back is whether you want a flush-mount or surface-mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 If you're going to put a strip of ebony in there anyway, you don't need the ferrules. A simple hole would be enough. I'm making a guitar where the bridge is walnut, and the strings just come through the body and round over the walnut. It'll hold plenty long, especially with ebony. Even if it grooves it a little, it will be from compression, not erosion. So once it sets a groove it won't go much deeper (if at all) over time. Hasn't anyone found a source for those little ones like Carvin and Schecter use? It seems to me that the little ones would be invisible on a black top, especially if you took the time to recess them. You could also inlay ebony dowels in front of each hole, and then carve them. I've done string though with no top ferrules, but it was on Maple. As long as you put a good taper on them they'll only dig in once. Then I would soak with thin CA and re-taper them to match the compression. They never dug in again. You could also drive a little nail in front of each one so the string rides on the nail head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 The top is maple-- was it your experience that the maple was hard enough that the strings didn't dig in? I usually use 'light' strings on my electrics, guaged .11 - ? which isn't an insane amount of tension, though some day I may decide that .12 is the way to go. I'm surprised that the ebony won't get 'slots' in it from the strings, but if that's the case then I may not bother with the ferrules. The next question in that case would be-- how would one go about mounting the ebony? For a variety of reasons, it seems to me that it'd be best to finish the guitar and THEN mount it, but using what? I should drop Myka a line to see how he did it. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Just a thought -- why not try a piece of black Corian instead of the ebony? Or maybe ebony with a strip of Corian or Micarta on top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 I've never heard of either of those things. Are they woods or synthetics? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 I bought those little 3/16" flush-mounts straight from Carvin. Be very careful when you drill the holes to depth cause it makes all the difference in the world when they are "just right". Too deep and it's epoxy time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 You can get steel rivets like I did and have the local powder coater do them in black, should be pretty cheap, since black is a color that gets coated a lot, they might be able to squeeze yours with a bigger project. Also you can cut the head out of the screw and sit them on the body, but like doctor said you have to drill to the x-act depth. They will look like Mykas ferrules, here and the rivets will look like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Myka's guitar was posted back when my guitar was in the concept stage, and his ebony strip is exactly what I had in mind for mine. The rivets aren't a bad plan at all, but I can't help but think that's an awful lot of work to go through in order to get them to look very similar to what some counter-sunk black ferrules will look like, no? I guess powder-coat would be more rugged than adonized (or whatever it's called!) the way the black ferrules are. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 As for the ebony or maple getting slotted, it's entirely based on your taper, or radius as the hole breaks over the top. If you just countersink the hole you'll get grooves. That's why I first let the string groove the wood itself, then I make the taper. At that point the maple is about as compressed as it'll ever get. Plus the CA soaking makes it harder than before it was compressed. When they're done they look sort of like a teardrop shape. The ebony strip will only work if it's rounded properly, like Myka's. We've used wooden bridges on jazzboxes forever, and they just get a little compressed but then they hold forever. It's mainly the unwound strings that pull, but after the CA it's solid as a rock. Again I'd recommend the little Carvin ones, but I'm just saying what I've done in the past. Some of this started years ago when you really didn't have an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I've never heard of either of those things. Are they woods or synthetics? Greg ← http://www.dupont.com/corian/a/en/c/Introduction/index.html http://www.knifeandgun.com/catalog/micarta...86_products.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 better than recessing something on the top you can do this (scrool all the way down) I think that looks much more professional and you dont need any kind of hardware on the top. Thats what i'm going to be dong on my guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Those Godins still have a little grommet in them. If you don't use one of the afforementioned techniques you'll still have the string digging into the top of the guitar. An 1/8" recess doesn't change that. Which leads me to one that I totally forgot about, but it could be perfect for you Greg. If you go to a hobby store you can find brass or aluminum tubing. I don't know (or care) what hobby nerds use it for but you could simply line the inside of the hole with brass tubing, in just the right size. You'd have a sharp break angle on the string, but no digs into the wood. So then you could either paint over it, or leave it polished. If you were going to paint over it I'd say put thin CA around it so it doesn't ever move and crack the paint. If you drill a perfectly sized hole for the tubing it should work beautifully, and be the most stealth of all the ideas so far. The strings would literally just appear from the top of the guitar. If you painted it in, you could then take a countersink bit and just kiss off the paint from the edge while putting a little angle on the inside of the tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 anodize is done to aluminum, powder coat is nice and shinny smooth surface. It's the last rave on painting wheels for motorcycles and cars. More durable than paint. In a hobby shop you can get tubbing like mentioned in a lot of different diameters. I know I have seen black rivets, but I havent found any on the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Marksound-- Cool beans. I wonder where one could find micarta for a fingerboard? (thinking future project) Godin SD-- I own a Godin LG. I briefly considered their technique and then realized that I would need a very precise jig in order to make those 6 very precise grooves. And if just one of them is off, the whole effect is ruined. Also, as frank mentioned, there's still a wee grommet or at least the lip of a brass tube. Actually now that frank's mentioned it, I think the tube idea WOULD be the best one for me. I'll go down to the local hobby shop this weekend to see if I can find some appropriate tubing. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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