psw Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Well the title says it all... Are lots of full range speakers (130mm or 5.25 inch woofers) have the effect as a couple of large speakers in principle? The speaker's I'm talking about are 70 watts, paper cone with foam surround, frequency response of 70-18KHz, sensitivity of 88db, and a magnet of 5.5 Oz's. I'm proposing 16 of them and running them at 200 watts in a stereo configuration to create a bi-amp effect with two cabs. But, even if you ignore the details of these speakers in particular, what would be the effect of this kind of setup? psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Bose has been doing this since 1968: Bose 901 Series VI Nine full-range 4 inch speakers in an engineered and enhanced enclosure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 If you want ground shaking bass, you need something bigger than 5" cones... usually 10" or bigger. However, if you just want screaming lead guitar, 5" cones would probably sound fine... although I'm not a big fan of paper cones. I've read some interesting stuff on reversing the polarity of 1/4 or 1/2 of the speakers in setups like this. The general consensus is that it provides better air-balance in the box, allowing the use of less (or no) porting. Some people say it results in too much phase-cancellation, others say it's no more likely to create phase-cancellation because the distance between the speakers blah blah blah blah blaaah my eyes feel like they're gonna bleed. D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Well that sounds promising...I'm not saying it's new...I've seen some stuff in the past. I might add a subwoofer. My current amp is a combo with a 12" and I have a ported extension cab with a 15". There's a natural kind of crossover effect. The "stereo everywhere" effect is the kind of thing I was aiming for. I thought I could put them in columns. If I did this I could use some large PVC pipe cut lenghwise in the back as a kind of reflector and ports down the side. I see bose has used a lot of speakers at the back, bouncing off the wall. Perhaps if they were wired "reverse polarity" any cancellation would be counteracted by the reflected delay. Anyhow, thanks...when I get time to do it it sounds like an interesting thing to experiment with. psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Whatever you're contemplating, it was probably done 50 years ago. Look up WeberVST website, there is enough technical information there to keep you occupied for a few weeks at least. Once you're done there, go to Electro Voice or JBL's website and hunt down some more. Speaker information is out there (and easy to find) by the mother of god truckload if you bother to go look for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Well Drak, what can I say. This isn't a product ...I just want to get surround sound loud enough to play in a band and replace my combo which, while plenty loud enough is really directional. I played an outside festival once and couldn't be heard over the otherside of the stage! Also I want it to be compact and light to carry. I dont like leaving anything out in the car while loading out. Plus...I've got a 200 watt stereo poweramp for a song and 16 of these speakers at a wholesale clearance. They're rated at 70 watts a piece! I like a fairly clean sound but not to shrill and always play with a small amount of analoge delay on there. I figure I could get two amps sounds from two pairs of 4 speakers on either side and have one side handle the delay while the other have a little hair on it. I'm sure it's been done before...it's no big deal p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester700 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Whatever setup you want to try, I would try to look at an existing implementation of it. Have you listened to the Bose 901? One listen to them would be enough to swear me off wanting to try that... Other opinions may differ, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 That was my whole point. If you spend the same amount of energy actually researching your subject as you would building it, you'll get a lot further a lot faster than just blindly building it and trying it out. It's all been done before, and the results are in print. You have to be smart enough to search it out. This is called standing on the shoulders of those who came before you, as opposed to trying to build a new foundation of a building that has already been built, and the plans are yours free for the taking if only you looked for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 So basically, you're looking to build this: Bose Musician Personal Amplification System If I save up enough pennies, I'm definitely getting one of those someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester700 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 So basically, you're looking to build this: Bose Musician Personal Amplification System If I save up enough pennies, I'm definitely getting one of those someday. ← As always, listen first. I have no experience with that particular setup, but the concept brings to mind a bunch of questions, and I've never seen a Bose product that was worth half of the hype... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Well, I don't want to sound like a Bose fanboi or anything, but I really think you get what you pay for with Bose products. I've had good luck with them and so have my friends. My uncle has a set of 201 Series I speakers from back in the seventies that sound just as great as my 201 Series IV's. A friend of mine had a set of 901s from 1971--they blew away just about anything new you could buy at a consumer-level audio store. Can you buy better? Of course. But it's like comparing a Les Paul to a custom Benedetto. The prices Bose charges look like Wal-Mart compared to Bang and Olufsen. My thinking with the Bose Personal Amplification system is that it would be a good choice for me because I play smaller venues and use digital effects. A Marshall half-stack would be a dream, but when you're working with sound guys that hate guitar amps, it becomes a little impractical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 I lost contact, but this is what I was posting at the time: Yeah that's the idea crafty. But, I'd be having two channels and perhaps two columns, or boxes. Drak...if anything I spend too much reading and talking and not enough building! That's the reason for the question. I remember Galliaen Krugger(?spelling) had a little mike stand amp that was pretty powerful (100watt plus) but that was still pretty directional. I know about bose. I'm here asking, 'cause that's researching. Evidently it's not common or people would have an opinion. By the way, reading advertising is no way to research. First hand knowledge is always of more interest, that's the beauty of the forum. For instace, here's all I could gleam from Bose's web site on their cylindrical radiator loudspeaker: L1 Cylindrical Radiator™ loudspeaker The unusual design of this speaker projects sound in a fundamentally different way than conventional speakers. Band members 3 feet away from the speaker are not blasted and fans 50 feet away can still enjoy the nuances of the music. It’s also lightweight and easy to set up. Musicians and fans experience nearly the same full sound without separate monitor, PA speakers or audible distortion. Knowing that they like to reflect sound, I might hazard a guess that the speakers are perhaps pointing up and the shape funnells it out. Or there could be speakers facing out in an 180 degree arch. I'll check the patent's shall I? psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 there is a phenomenal bass player who uses 32 2" speakers to get his upper midrange and high end on his bass, and has been doing for years i will see if i can remember his name and link you to his site. begins with a b it hink barry ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted February 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 You're not thinking Stanley Clarke are you. He had some wierd setup like this...lots of poping and percusive stuff in his playing and uses a picolo bass sometimes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonkey Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 (edited) I found a picture of an amp that had a LOAD of small speakers in. I've been trying to find the link for ages now, but can't find it anywhere Got one more avenue to try yet though. Oh my god, I actually found it. psw - you owe me a pint... ... http://www.philjonesbass.com/Products%20page.htm Kaj Edited February 25, 2005 by ToneMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 what a lot of speakers! Thanks tone man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 You're not thinking Stanley Clarke are you. He had some wierd setup like this...lots of poping and percusive stuff in his playing and uses a picolo bass sometimes? ← this is a big white guy with curly redish brown hair and plays a lot of fretless instruments. for got his name he had his own video out and i used to watch it back in the mid 90's at the music store i worked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Err, maybe english guy Tony Franklin? Got a vid on fretless bass. Pino Paladino's a fairly tall white guy probably got a vid too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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