Codename Swansong

[guitman32]

Here is a pic of my modified body template, with the AANJ altered. Does this look accurrate to you all? If I get some feedback soon I will cut and rout the body today.

Thanks!

[RGGR]

Does look nice doesn't.

Must say I'm not big fan of that flickr.com photo hosting site......pics load so much slower than the photobucket site.

But compairing this template with the old one..........well.....uhm!........tssssss!.........

[Maiden69]

Looks much better! Before you do the body, get the neck you will use and mock it on the template to see how the higher fret access is.

[guitman32]

SWEEET!

Maiden: I did that, and it seems that the 24th fret is about parallel with the innermost point of the bottom horn contour...

I went to jemsite.com, and after just a visual inspection, it seems to be about right. Also, looking over some templates, the pocket depth is also pretty right on, at about 77mm deep or so (rough measurment). Does everything sound like its in order?

Im going to check out photobucket...but first post pics of some of the body rough cut. I only rough cut the bottom area of the body, leaving the neck portion on, because Im not sure if I want to leave some support for routing the neck pocket.

[guitman32]

Pics of Semi-Rough Cut body:

I intentionally left the upper area un-cut in case I decide to use it as extra support when routing the neck pocket. I am leaning to cutting it out totally, because it doesnt seem like it would be too hard to rout the pocket otherwise. Any thoughts?

[RGGR]

Does everything sound like its in order?

Yep, it does.

I intentionally left the upper area un-cut in case I decide to use it as extra support when routing the neck pocket. I am leaning to cutting it out totally, because it doesnt seem like it would be too hard to rout the pocket otherwise. Any thoughts?

As neck pocket is probably the most important cut in whole body, there are pretty much two schools of thought on this.

First

Cut neck pocket very early on in project. Reason being, as you still have nice flat overall surface this will enable you take make good neck-pocket cavity.

Second

Cut neck pocket after completion of neck, so you can line up the neck with body and have exact cut, based on the real neck.

I think both theories could be used. I personally cut neck pocket early on. While having cut body similar to your set-up. In future projects I would wait a little longer.

Reason being that initially the neck was snugg fit in pocket, but later sanding work on neck made me have bit more room in end. Not necessary bad thing as layers of paint on body and part of neck pocket will create snugg fit again. I just would wait little next time, when neck is 99% complete.

See here some other thoughts on subject:

http://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/pocket/

http://users.pandora.be/marnix.ghesquiere/bodywork.html

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/body.htm

http://members.accesswave.ca/%7Ederekn/rou...(templates).htm

Edited April 13, 2005 by RGGR

[toddler68]

I have a question:  Other than the pressure of the tightened rod and silicone lube placed at each end, what prevents a Hot Rod from being able to slide out of the adjustement slot once the FB has been glued?  I really really really hope this isnt a stupid question, but am quite curious as the the answer.

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I asked the same question when I did mine. I think the answer is string tension. You're always going to have the t-rod tweaked to some degree to counteract the force of the string tension. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

[Maiden69]

you are suppose to use silicone not the lube, but the rubber one, it will hold it in place and it is flexible. The lube is just liquid, and the rod will rattle inside the cavity when you play.

[guitman32]

I routed the body today, and everything went smoothly, spare on small chip on the upper horn. Luckily it remained attached to the body, so gluing it up will be easy.

I routed the body on the router table. First I attached the template to the body w/double stick tape, and then routed a little more than halfwawy on one side with the template bit (template down). Then I flipped the body, changed to a flush trim bit, and routed the rest of the body out.

The chip happened as I first began routing...I routed too quickly in the area where the grain was parallel to the rout direction. Oh well, live and learn...It could have been worse. Other than that little dilemma, I had zero tearout or chipping near the horns. Only a little sanding will be necessary to get the rout line in the middle of the body gone.

Here is a pic of the clamps on the glued chip.

I purchased some silicone, so I should also get the FB glued this evening. Pics to come!

[RGGR]

Flickr is having bad day I guess.

Not strange with name like that.......

[guitman32]

Wow....ok..."having a massage"

I think im gonna have to switch to photobucket....like....now.

[guitman32]

And a pic of gluing the FB...

I used some silicone at each side of the Hotrod, and at 2 spots in the middle. Before I glued the FB, I checked for any rattle, and didnt have any.

To prevent it from sliding around with the clamps in place, I hammered a very small nail (one one each end) a couple of mm'sinto the maple...basically just enough to hold it. I then used my end nippers to cut the head off it, leaving roughlt 2 mms extending above the maple. I then test fitted the pau ferro board, and once in the correct position, hammered it a bit to get the board sitting flush on the maple. Then, after spreading the glue, I just place the FB over the nails and clamped it in place. Worked like a charm...hopefully

[RGGR]

The chip happened as I first began routing...I routed too quickly in the area where the grain was parallel to the rout direction. Oh well, live and learn..

Yeah, you can warn people for this a million time......but I guess you have to experience it yourself to know what to watch for. And with solid finish no one will ever know.

I like your fretboard nail trick. Same trick could be used with other type glue joints.......hmmmm! Interesting....I had never thought of that. Great neat trick. Thanks.

[CudBucket]

The chip happened as I first began routing...I routed too quickly in the area where the grain was parallel to the rout direction. Oh well, live and learn..

Yeah, you can warn people for this a million time......but I guess you have to experience it yourself to know what to watch for. And with solid finish no one will ever know.

I like your fretboard nail trick. Same trick could be used with other type glue joints.......hmmmm! Interesting....I had never thought of that. Great neat trick. Thanks.

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Hey! That was my trick!!

I use it on bodies too.

[guitman32]

Cudbucket: Sorry there buddy, I didnt mean to steal your glory!!

I was pretty sure I wasnt the first to use this technique, but it does seem pretty effective. Plus the method mentioned in Martin Koch's Building Electric Guitars, which involves drilling holes in a fret slot and hammering locating pins, seems like a waste of money.

[RGGR]

Hey! That was my trick!!

Edited April 14, 2005 by RGGR

[guitman32]

UPDATE (but no pics, sorry)

The FB is glued, and it is fine. One thing though, youll notice from the pic of the FB being glued that I didnt put any scrap in between the clamps in the middle region of the board. When I removed the clamps, the area where they made contact with the FB looked like it had been oiled. No big deal, and should sand out no problem (as I have to remove about 2/16 off the FB), but next time I will be using scrap along the full length of the board.

Overall I think I have had very few problems (aka screwups), but I am increasingly nervous about fretting the guitar. I am going to practice on one of my extra boards, and have ordered Fret Work Step by Step from Stewmac. The tools list I currently have for fretting goes as follows:

Fretwire - wide/high 1lb

Fret End Dressing File

Fret Leveling File

End Nipper (although I am going to use my Dremel to cut the frets)

Fret Hammer

Three-in-one fret crowning file

Home made fret bender (using Brians tutorial as guidance)

I am going to make a fret beveling file as per Brians tutorial

Right now I am leaning to using no glue or epoxy. I might use some CA for any stubborn fret ends as discussed on Frets.com. Im sure the issue will be addressed in the book I ordered, but what is the general consensus on using glues for fretting? Since this is my first job, would using glue be any better or advantageous than not?

[guitman32]

UPDATE!

Here is a shot of the neck which has been routed using the FB as a guide, and the fixed and routed body. I used the robosander I received in the mail to shape the area that was repaired rather than the router.

Here is another shot of the neck.

I then radiused the FB using a 16" sanding block from Stewmac. I first used 80 grit to get it to shape, then finished it with 220, 400, 800 and 1200 grit. As you can see from there pics, the result is a mirror shine.

These are some nice shots of the FB grain.

One issue: I had to sand down the FB cause it was a bit too thick. That, combined with radiusing, took basically all the depth out of the fret slots. You can see from the pics that a little bit of slot is still there, so its just a matter of bringing them back down to the appropriate depth again. No re-measuring needed.

[GregP]

Something seems odd about the upper horn, but I can't put my finger on it.

Nice to see that it's coming along, though!

[S.Dodding]

Looking good!

GregP is right though, there isn't enough curve on the inside upper part of the top horn, and so it looks slightly odd.

[guitman32]

Thanks alot!

I think the picture is bad, as the camera was angled when the pic was shot. The area that looks like it needs more curve is acutally the inner side portion of the horn.

I will post a better picture as soon as I am off work.

Next step is to re-slot the FB and install the frets. I will then shape the neck contour and drill the tuner holes (using a 10mm bit). I have a surform, rasps, files and spokeshave which will be used for neck shaping. I might also attempt to employ the robosander for some rough shaping work. Any tips on shaping the neck volute?

Once I am finished with the neck, I will begin routing the neck pocket, pup and control cavities.

[guitman32]

UPDATE:

I am going to post pictures now and comments later, as I am tired from a long day:

Pics of fretted neck:

See you all tomorrow!

[guitman32]

Ahhh, refreshed and back at it...

Anyhow, to fret the guitar I first bent the frets using a fret bender of Brians design (see the tutorial on the Project Guitar Site). It was interesting, because I had trouble getting the frets to take shape using this tool alone. I bent the frets mainly with my hands, but the tool was useful in getting a straight bend (ie so the fret tang remains perfectly perpendicular to the crown).

After the frets were bent and cut to proper lengths, I de-greased them with naptha. Following the advice of many people in this forum, and the Fret Work book from Stewmac, I beveled the corners of each fret slot using a triangular needle file. This will allow the fret to seat better as the fret sometimes has a small bead where the tang joins the crown. To hammer the frets in, I used no glue. Instead, I just wet each slot prior to hammering the fret, the idea being to swell up the wood so it grips the fret better. Tools used were a fret hammer from Stewmac. Once installed, I cut the fret ends with a Dremel.

Everything went smoothly, and the ends are quite secure, spare one high fret. I think I must have overlooked this slot when checking the depths post-radiusing (using Brians business card method). I plan on removing this fret and re-sawing/hammering, possibly with some super glue for persuasion. You can see this fret on the picture of the trimmed fret ends...its the only one that hasnt been trimmed.

I then sealed the ends of each fret with some CA, allowing it to run down the length of each side of the fret, wiping it down with a rag immediately. One thing I didnt anticipate for was the fact that the CA seals off the FB...this might be a visual coloration problem when oiling the FB. In hindsight, I could have been much neater with my CA application, but it still looks fine, and after applying a bit of oil, you cant tell the difference anyway.

I think that pretty much covers it. I am very happy to have this step out of the way, as I think I will make much progress this weekend. My goad is to have the neck totally finished, minus fret leveling/dressing. All that needs to be done is the drilling of the tuner holes, cutting that block of the end of the neck that I left in place in case I needed a level clamping surface, and of course shaping the neck back countour.

Once the neck is finished, I will begin routing the body, pup, and control cavities. So far, so good!!

[guitman32]

UPDATE:

I have re installed the one high fret I mentioned in the prvious post, and filed and angled the fret ends. To do this I used the a fret leveling file I ordered from stewmac, and just held it at a consisten angle. The results were nice, and I dont know if I am going to build a file as per Brians tutorial. We'll see how I feel tomorrow!!

I have also started to shape the neck contour. I am using a sureform and spokeshave. As I have previously read numerous times, the process is a very satisfying process...I enjoy it very much.

Now I am facing a dilemma. I am going to route the neck pocket and pup cavities tomorrow, and am not sure if I want to use pickup mounting rings or not. I really like the look of a clean direct mount, but also the look of nice metal monting rings. What do you all think

I should mention that I am planning on a solid black finish.

[guitman32]

THanks JTM!

After doing some research, I found some pictures that lead me to believe that if you use a standard pickup cavity routing config, you can actually do both. Meaning there is enough space in the little ears of the cavity to mount the pickup with the ring if you desire....and without as well. Is this true??

Thanks