Myka Guitars Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 I found some vague references online to infrared heat lamps being used to cure lacquer. Supposedly if you spray medium coats (not shiny) and let them dry you can put them under the heat lamp for a few minutes and cure the lacquer. I apparently does this by drying all the moisture out of the lacquer quickly. McFaddens spray lacquer claims to be ready for buffing in 3 days. I usually wait 2-3 weeks minimum but with the heat lamps this could be sped up considerably. Anyone have any experience with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 I found some vague references online to infrared heat lamps being used to cure lacquer. Supposedly if you spray medium coats (not shiny) and let them dry you can put them under the heat lamp for a few minutes and cure the lacquer. I apparently does this by drying all the moisture out of the lacquer quickly. McFaddens spray lacquer claims to be ready for buffing in 3 days. I usually wait 2-3 weeks minimum but with the heat lamps this could be sped up considerably. Anyone have any experience with this? ← My only reference to IR heat lamps are for curint waterbased finishes.. There was a link a few threads back to a hot box made out of a cardboard box.. But i've heard Doc say a couple of times that IR banks are a common cabinetmakers trick for fast curing waterbased finishes. It seems I heard you don't want to speed up nitro too quickly or you'll get problems. I may be wrong though. here we are.. heat lamp link on PG forum.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 David, I used DEFT spray laquer on mine, altho is not as good as McF. I was able to buff after 3 days, I know I didn't build it realy thick, (about 3 cans total in 10 coats over 3 days, the paint was fully cure by that time. Oh, I used a 1000W halogen lamp to lgiht the area that I was spraying and since it was snowing outside, I turned them down to 500 and pointed them at the guitar while it was hanging to dry after every coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted April 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 (edited) Cool thanks for the link. It makes sense that air flow would help lacquer more than heat. You know it may have been a water based lacquer article I read that mentioned IR heat lamps. Edit: Here is the article I had found: InfraredHeaters.com Here is what they said about quick curing lacquer finishes: Advanced lacquer finishes are typically applied in several coats, with drying between each. Unassisted drying between coats is possible, particularly when finish quality is not critical. However, unless humidity is constantly low, moisture in the air will deposit on the surface, causing blushing of the lacquer. This is repaired through time consuming and costly polishing. Best results are achieved with a Fostoria electric infrared oven producing a cure in 15 seconds to 2 minutes for each coat. Highly consistent drying temperatures (between 150 and 200 degrees F. depending upon the individual coating) produce an even finish and eliminate the blushing problem. That's a pretty fast cure time. I wonder how realistic it is. I will push some test samples and see what happens. Edited April 15, 2005 by Myka Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 I did some tests on scrap in a 200 F oven, with both epoxy and polyurethane. After 15-20 minutes in the oven and another 15 minutes cooling, both were hard enough that they passed the fingernail dent test. I was able to scuff sand and reapply the polyU with identical results (15-20 min. per coat). This is how I did the spalted maple cavity covers on the doubleneck strat. Only problem...the fumes would just about knock you over. Especially the epoxy (which gives off cyano-compounds I've been told...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted April 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 (edited) I am having some great results with Nitrocellulose lacquer (I am testing it today). After 10-15 minutes under the heat lamp the finish is quite hard. The fumes are pretty bad but I have some decent ventilation so it doesn't get out of the spray booth. I did have the finish bubble a bit on one coat but I intentionally rushed it to see what happened. If I wait 10-20 minutes before it goes under the lamp it works great. This really speeds up the finishing process. I may actullly start to like it. I'll post pictures of the results later tonight. I have a couple really cool guitars in the booth right now. Flame and quilt. Edited April 15, 2005 by Myka Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Do you know anyone in the fast-food industry? Oh, a musician. You are IN the fast-food industry!! Seriously, those fat, clear bulbs they use on the buffet lines are FANTASTIC if you keep them 36" or more away. It is hard to find a UV bulb or plain heat lamp that is as calm and nondestructive as these. WHOULD WE BURN YOUR TACO???? I think NOT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Having a burnt taco must be really painfull!!! Okay back to heat lamps. The only problem with heat lamps and lacquer is that when you build a really thick finish and cook it, You can get blistering. If you cook each coat until most of the solvents have off gassed you're okay. I'd worry about taking it to 200F. A little high for my taste. !50F with a lot of moving air, sort of a guitar convection oven should do the trick. The more moving air the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 I am having some great results with Nitrocellulose lacquer (I am testing it today). After 10-15 minutes under the heat lamp the finish is quite hard. The fumes are pretty bad but I have some decent ventilation so it doesn't get out of the spray booth. I did have the finish bubble a bit on one coat but I intentionally rushed it to see what happened. If I wait 10-20 minutes before it goes under the lamp it works great. This really speeds up the finishing process. I may actullly start to like it. I'll post pictures of the results later tonight. I have a couple really cool guitars in the booth right now. Flame and quilt. ← Awesome.. yes. post the test pics. Are you using an enclosed bx or just parking it under the light? Heating it in the booth may be the best bet (after vapors have been expelled of course ) with the fan running you'd then have heat and moving area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Alright the results are in. I like using this heat lamp method of curing finishes. For each coat I sprayed a medium build of lacquer (barely looks wet) then waited 15-25 minutes for it to dry a bit and evaporate the solvents. Then I placed the guitar under the heat lamp for 15-20 minutes. I am not using a box or anything (I might try that though). After this the finish passed the fingernail test no problem. In fact it felt harder than most finishes do in 3-4 days. I decided to push this method to see what happens. I applied 6 coats of lacquer yesterday over the period of abot 4 hours. Today the finish still passes the fingernail test so there are not any solvents left in the wood. And there is very little odor from the finish. Cool!~ The guitars are turing out pretty sweet too. Here are the pics: The individual galleries are here #022 and here #025. ~David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 That's the nitro, right? I might have to try setting something like this up. The worst part of the build is waiting for the finish to cure. BTW, David, that top guitar (the singlecut) is SICK!! Where'd you get that maple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 (edited) Yes this is nitro. This process is fast. A good box to keep more heat in would be good after the initial gassing off of the solvents. Maybe somehting that has a fan mounted in a box with the light on the top. Run the fan for 15 minutes and then just the light for another 15 minutes and you would have a good hard finish. The wood is pretty awesome isn't it?!? I got on eBay it from emotionwoodworks. He is selling camera stuff right now but he does have some great wood. Edited April 16, 2005 by Myka Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Well alright! Bookmark this one! Thanks for running the tests David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x189player Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Beautiful work! FWIW< I've used much the same process with water-based polys, enabling good finish even under high humidity (raining, cold) conditions. YOu really can force the solvents out much quicker this way. An old hot rod trick for applying a really good finish with a brush is to set the paint in the oven for a few minutes before brushing it on- I've only done this with enamel myself, I can imagine the flammability hazards of laquer or nitro. But it's a similar idea. Seems much safer to heat it up after coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 (edited) As usual your work is stunning The double cutaway has my FAVARITE finsih. I LOVE tiger eye. How did you get that color? If you used a premixed "tiger eye" stain where did you get it? I've been trying to find one but have been unsucessful. Man you soooooo rock. I wish I could make guitars half as good as you Well no I wish I could make guitars as good as you BTW what kind of bridge are you using that requires that unique rout? And I just looked and you have a nice looking fret job on #022. Thats still something I'm having trouble with Edited April 17, 2005 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted April 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Thanks Godin. I appreciate the comments. The stain was a series of steps of different colors. I used black, brown, red, and yellow water based aniline dyes from LMI. You can get them here. The stain was applied like this: 1. Stain the whole top black. Let dry. 2. Stain brown over the black. Let dry. 3. Sand back to whiten the top except for the deep grain. 4. Add red over the whole top. 5. While still wet apply brown along the edges and yellow in the middle. 6. Let dry. 7. Add more yellow to the middle and brown at the edges. 8. Repeat and add color until you get it right. All of the colors are blended into each other wet. I use a damp rag to blend the colors to avoid dark lines of overlapping color. Just keep the dye from drying too quick and keep it moving and you will have a good blends. Chek out this thread for another tutorial of this process. The bridge I am using is a Stetsbar Tremolo. I designed this mounting plate with Eric Stets for use in new and custom guitars. It is a surface mount tremolo unit that totally rocks. These two guitars are the first two to use this method of mouting the trem to the guitar. It is about as solid of a contact as you can get. In another week these will be done. I will post some reviews of the tremolo then. ~David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 That is great. Thanks for posting the results.. Guitars look really nice too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Nice to see more progress on 025 David, I have been watching that one for a while, I think I will make a double cut LP, or close to yours sometime next year, once I get back. I can't wait to do another one, love your staining method, it worked wonders on my guitar. by then I plan on having a spray rig, I moght try McF, nitro to see how it works, I guess that I will have enough time to get an IR set up too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted April 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 The Nitro is some good stuff and easy to work with but to tell you the truth I am getting tired of the wicked toxic solvents. I wear a full vapor mask as have good ventilation but I still feel stoned after spraying. I am working on some tests of water based lacquer right now. I will post these results too when I get them done (1-2 weeks). The water based lacquer that I am testing comes highly recommended. You can get it from LMI: KTM-9 water based lacquer. Here is Mike Doolin's webpage on this stuff: Waterborne Finishing Instructions. I have seen his guitars with the last version of the KTM product and you couldn't tell it wasn't lacquer. Great stuff and eaier on your nervous system! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 I bought some KTM-9 about three months ago and had hell getting the sags to leave me alone. THEN I reread the tutorial again (fourth time) and low-temp was my main problem. Fer shure read that tutorial and give the water-based a try. Water-based does not lend itself to shortcuts. I wonder how it is on repairs? You know, of itself and other laquers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 (edited) thanks for the info David. My next guitar will (hopefully) be a single peice of flamed or quilted maple that I will dye the entire thing that awesome tiger eye burst following your directions. I'll start that project in about a month... Man this guitar building is addictive Edited April 17, 2005 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Please take care of yourself David. By the time you realize you've done damage, it's too late, you only have 1 brain and 1 set of lungs and 1 central nervous system. If you feel stoned, I would find a different way, that is not a good sign at all. I used to do the same thing and was quite nonchalant about it for several years, and I have always used a full respirator too, but I have re-evaluated what I was doing to myself, and have become -much- stricter. You don't realize what you've done until it's too late, please take the proper precautions so you can build guitars into your 60's and still remember your own name, eh? I read a story about a guy who used the CA accellerator rather nonchalantly and it killed him in his early 40's, as in D-E-A-D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Good Lord Godin, where are you getting the dough for all these projects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Good Lord Godin, where are you getting the dough for all these projects? ← lol. I have very supportive parents They want me to do this for a living (sounds good to me ) So they spend money on me... I got freakin awesome parents!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 David, I've posted it before and here it is again. If you feel the effects of this stuff your mask ain't working. It may need replacing. Today. After too many years in the goo I have lost a significant amount of feeling in my fingers and toes. I've gotten good about wearing a good mask and using ventilation for the lst ten or so and I'm not getting any worse. I'm also not one whit better. It doesn't grow back. Take care of yourself!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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