Bought The Gdi21

[GregP]

So the first products from Behringer's new stomp box line have shipped, including the 3 SansAmp rip-offs. I got the GDI21, which is a copy of the Tech21 SansAmp G2. I'll post some soundclips once I've gotten a bit more familiar with it, but here are some first impressions and thoughts:

1. Initially, the unit seemed quite sturdy (in the package) and since it's hefty, I figured it must be die-cast. However, upon opening the package, I discovered that it's simply heavy-duty plastic. It's not likely to crack or break, but it's still not a tank, you know? You'd think they'd at LEAST make the switch heavy-duty for stomping activity, but the switch is even flimsier-feeling than the rest. Odd place to skimp, where it's most likely to break.

So, yes, it's durable enough to use on stage for some people; however, if you are heavy-footed you are doomed.

2. When not engaged, the level is not high enough, so using it as an effect to turn on and off seems 'out'. I have to explore more, but it seems to me that there's no way to match the 'clean' level with the 'engaged' level. Naturally, you don't usually adjust the clean level of a pedal, but a clean enough signal should usually pass through. Initial tests seem to indicate that the level is being significantly attenuated when not engaged.

3. The amp sounds are quite good. There's still something 'missing' much of the time, but for $50 CDN, compared to a $2,000 amp, you shouldn't expect a miracle. I was pleasantly surprised!

4. The 2-band EQ isn't flexible enough. In order to get the heavy sounds to sound... well... heavy! I had to scoop a wee bit of the mids. I'm actually a big fan of mid BOOST pre-distortion, and THEN a bit of mid scoop at the end, for heavy sounds. I don't actually like to cut my mids out, I just like to change the way they interact with the distortion. I don't have an EQ pedal, so I had to settle for a cut post-distortion, and it worked fairly well.

5. The drive knob doesn't provide a wide enough range. It gets dirty too quickly (at like, "1", "2" at best) to provide a very broad range of mildly overdriven tones. However, with a bit of finesse I was getting some lovely driven Twin sounds.

6. This is something I should have known, but just didn't-- as a DI box (it is capable of being a neutral DI with ground lift) it is only effective when using the balanced XLR line out. While there's a 1/4" mono out, this is only suitable for chaining it as an effect, not for DI duty. I found I got best results by going guitar-->GDI21-->StudioV3 preamp-->soundcard. Ideally, you'd want to cut the additional pre-amp out of the equation. :? Weird. Again, I can't help but wonder if I'm doing something else wrong, but it's not like there are a lot of controls to screw up. Also, my soundcard is partly to blame because it only accepts unbalanced RCA input. If it had a balanced line in, I might have had a proper match and been able to eliminate the extra node in the signal path.

In summary:

- construction: adequate for the studio but not up to 'real' or 'enthusiastic' stage work

- sounds: surprisingly good, especially with a bit of work! Changing the gain stage models and mic placement models actually had a pleasant (and predictable, meant in a good way!) impact on the tone. Curtis P would be in pinch harmonic heaven with even a half-driven high-gain "brit" sound with centre mic.

- as a DI box: don't think my setup allowed me to properly test it

- value-for-money: exceptional, so far. I'll get back to you after a few days. I need to A/B some GDI21 vs. virtual amp to see if I'm actually getting some worthwhile tone out of it. For people not using or not comfortable with virtual amps, this had GOT to be good VFM.

Greg

[lovekraft]

Sounds like a great candidate for a dedicated bypass loop box - that'll solve your problems with gain loss and flimsy switches (just leave it "on" all the time), and with only $50CDN in it, you can easily afford an additional Hammond box, a DPDT footswitch and a couple of pulldown resistors (or add an LED, a 3PDT switch, a battery, and another resistor if you want an indicator light). Heavy foot, no problem!

Sound clips would be great, when you get time.

[GregP]

Also worth mentioning: the $50 CDN did not include the power supply. I could've grabbed a Boss one for $25, but I thought I'd look around first, and maybe pick something different up from Radio Shack/Tandy or what not.

Would a cheap power supply be a potential source of noise? I don't really know about such things.

Regarding the bypass loop -- great idea. I've never made a complete electronics project before (my guitar's wiring will be my first!) though I've done plenty of 'utility' soldering that it doesn't intimidate me. I just don't know where to get started. For example: what's a Hammond box?

Greg

[lovekraft]

Sorry, I'm bad about incomprehensible jargon. A Hammond box (actually a Hammond 1590BB) is a cast aluminum box like MXR uses for their stompboxes. Any metal enclosure would work. Here's a basic schematic.

There are some "improvements" that can be added if it pops on switching or you need an LED indicator, but that's all that's absolutely necessary.

FWIW, I've used my Radio Shack wallwart for years with all kinds of pedals without any noise or power problems - as always, of course, YMMV.

[GregP]

Grrrr....

So yesterday I was testing with a battery. Today I figured I'd buy an adapter for it, so I grabbed one at Radio Shack. Got home, plugged'er in, pressed the switch and.... nothing. I had the polarity aligned correctly or so I thought, but the way it was explained was poor and the diagram wasn't detailed enough.

So, I figured, nothing to lose, reversed the polarity, tried again and still nothing. Tried a few different sizes of plugs, but to no avail.

Tried the battery again (since it worked yesterday) and still nothing. So I was thinking, "great, my unit's ****ed already". Did the old tongue-test and realized that the battery had no more jooo--ooo---ooos, so it was no help telling me if I had crapped out the unit or not. But as I'm pondering things over, of course I'm looking at the interchangeable plugs for the adapter. Even though 2 of them seemed to fit, neither of them gave me a total feeling of, "yeah, that fit like a glove".

So I find some wire, shove 2 pieces into the little holes where the adapter would normally go, and touched the other ends to the battery clip. LED comes on. So, I'm pretty sure it's just that the adapter plug didn't fit properly. I had an old adapter ages ago that had a similar system of interchangeable plugs, but I haven't been able to find the adapter for ages. I DID, however, know where the extra plugs were. Sure enough, they fit the new adapter. HOWEVER, there was one missing... the one that I formerly used with my Boss pedals. I suspect that's the one I needed.

Now I have to go all the way into town again, which is a real PITA just to exchange this stupid adapter. When I bought the GDI21, I had the opportunity to just get a Boss adapter for $25, but I figured they've GOT to be cheaper elsewhere. The one I grabbed today is more flexible and was only $3 cheaper. I don't need flexibility, so I'm going to take it back and just get the stupid Boss adapter I should've gotten in the first place. <rolls eyes at himself>

Greg

[psw]

Looks like a nice buy.

I got a Korg Toneworks AX1G (great sitar sound but you have to "tune it to the key of the song to get the sypathetic strings to ring) and will do basic pitch shifting. The delay's are good but you just don't get the control you want...eg #repeats!

Same thing getting slightly overdriven sounds...I just don't think digital modeling cuts it for distortion...and you can hear the noise reduction working overtime to control the background hiss and such...still another plastic bargian, haven't broken it yet!

Anyway, this and my digital delay, Boss DD3, are really suseptable to powersupply problems. To work best, not only do they need to be regulated but that regulated voltage has to be right up there...not 8.5 volts. I've alway's needed to run digital things on separate supplies to everything else. I got a Danelectro one thrown in with the Korg Deal and it works fine.

Have fun

pete

[GregP]

As it turns out, the jack was physically broken; hence no power supplies working.

Took it in and exchanged it, and now the 9V power supply I had kicking around works.

Now I just need to decide how best to split my guitar signal into a clean and a 'dirty' signal for recording a redundant part.

Greg

[Maiden69]

Looks like a nice buy.

I got a Korg Toneworks AX1G

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that was my first toy!!!! I graduated to a Digitech GNX1, much better adjustability of the effects parameters!

Greg I have a cheap distortion pedal that can be used a that, one signal clean and another distorted, I can't find the brand now, but I think that a signal splitter before the effects could help if it is just one part that you are recording, there will be no adjustability to even out the sound though.

[mledbetter]

Well I have a sansamp GT2 and what you described are all the things I like and dislike about the sansamp. I used to do a live rig that was ampless.. I ran a line of effects, ended up with the GT2, then hit a real DI box (the sansamp is not a DI, that's a nice addition to the behringer if it works) and then outl Live on stage i was very impressed with the sansamp, but that's because it's running through an amp and being blown back at me at high volume. Recording at home with the sansamp, i got thin, brittle distortion that just sounded like DI'd distortion pedal sound.

For home recording I dont think you can beat a pod, or do what I do.. stick your 12 watt amp cranked to 10 or 12 in an isolation box with a mic trapped inside If you just want simple, real tube sounds.. you can go that route. You can always add effects in post as far as choruses and stuff like that. When I record, i just want the best tone possible without effects.. then color the sound afterward.

I generally love behringer stuff. I wonder how it would be to run that pedal into their tube preamp (which is just 40 us bucks) and then into your system. Might warm it up some and I think it has cabinet simulation built into it.

[GregP]

I have a tube preamp, but I wanted to save it for running the clean signal. It's just that the pres in my mixer can get kind of noisy, though I suppose since the part is meant to be redundant and sort of a 'backup plan' I can probably settle. It's what I used to use before I got the tube pre, and it worked "OK". In the digital world, I have some warming plug-ins, but more importantly I use convolution plug-ins for emulating cabs and real spaces. I agree that the raw sound of the GDI21 is pretty "DI distortion pedal" sounding, but with the right impulses, it comes back to life.

No isolation box here, but when it's the right time of the day I can still mic my little 30-watter.

Greg

[Daniel Sorbera]

Can someone point me in the direction of how too build an isolation box?

Thanks

[mledbetter]

build a plywood box, line it with acoustical foam and make a way to put a couple of chords into it. I used an old ozite covered rack box with a front and back panel.. but plywood and acoustical foam would be much better

[Daniel Sorbera]

Would it hurt your speaker too play in a small airtight box?

[mledbetter]

It's never hurt mine. I used that method at church a lot, so it would never be in there more than an hour.. but that way I could crank my amp all the way to distortion zone and not hurt anyone..

Speakers survive in sealed cabs so i don't know why this would be any different. You'll want to open it up every now and then to let the heat out tho

Would it hurt your speaker too play in a small airtight box?

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[marksound]

Dave Weiner (you know, Vai's rhythm guitarist) describes how he recorded his debut CD, Shove the Sun Aside here. Click on "The Recording of STSA."

Briefly, "Guitar - amp - isolation boxes mic'd by a Shure SM57 in each box - Avalon 2022 - Avalon 2055 - Manley Compressor - Apogee Converters - optically into the G4 on Seagate 15 or 10k RPM SCSI harddrives - Protools."

[suregork]

Does anyone know when the boss copies are gonna be available?

[GregP]

Supposedly still by the end of June. They lived up to their first quarter promise for the SansAmp copies, so it seems likely this'll hold true, too.

Greg