Crazy Idea?

[RGGR]

Okay, here we go.

Ever since I was introduced to the Ibanez Maxxas I have been thinking how I could copy the ideas behind this guitar in more manageble way. Hollow CNC routing like Maxxas body, I don't see happen on my shift.

But the whole hollow concept just intregued me.

And this got me thinking........if I used neck-thru neck blank......and would glue polystyrene foam side blocks to neck blank. These foam neck blanks could easlily be sanded and shaped into any desirable shape I wanted. Similar to shaping Surf board.

With Epoxy & Carbon/Glass fiber wet lay-up process I could finish guitar like any surfboard type deal.

Then I could drill small holes in body (cavity hole anyway......) and poor Acetone in body and dissolve the polystyrene, leaving nice hollow cavity.

The trem and pups all would be securely fastened into the wood neck-thru core.

The million $$ question of course will be....will it sound any good. How good will sound holes......carbon/fiber glass.........produce tone.

Yeah, I hear ya.....just build it.....and test to find out.

But for now just bouncing off idea.

[Mr Alex]

It was a while ago but there was an article in nzmusician magazine about some guys that were making polystyrene guitars, ill see if I can dig it up for ya.

Alex

edit: sorry mate, cant find any old mags, and website only goes back to 2003. It was a few years before then I believe.

But anyway, just remember, something has been done with polystyrene, or polystyrene based materials before. It can't have been too bad if it got a feature article. Also, i like the idea about dissolving the polystyrene once the fiberglass is set, as long as the polystyrene was really smooth first, the fiberglass will hopefully be really smooth and reflect sound waves well.

This is quite like an idea I've got rattlin' around in my head, but with wood molds(I wanna make my own archtops from fiberglass).

Mr Alex

Edited May 23, 2005 by Mr Alex

[darren wilson]

That sounds like a really cool idea. A typical neck-thru blank isn't wide enough to mount a trem and pickups onto, but that's easily fixed. I think you should give it a try and report back.

BTW, Adamas acoustics use a carbon fibre top and fiberglass back, and Rainsong acoustics are all carbon fibre. Can't sound all that bad.

[thedoctor]

Kinda like the old lost-wax casting technique. I don't know how fibreglass would sound in a controlled-thickness body but I can tell you that any poly except HDPS will be a floppy pile of crud and absorb sound to no end. Cast glass-filled epoxy would be my choice. Maybe with carbon filament impregnation. I love impregnating carbon!

Edited May 23, 2005 by thedoctor

[Mr Alex]

I love impregnating carbon!

←

I bet you do, I bet you do

[Ragasguitars]

As far as how the tone would be, probably very bright and metallic. I used to work for CA Guitars, did carbon fiber composite acoustics, they used a certain type of bracing to try and tone down the bright sound of the carbon fiber, but it just didn't work that way, they are very bright and metallic but they are loud. I'm sure alot of the resonance will come from the thickness of the body walls so if this is something you want to try out, you should try out several with different body thicknesses to see what sounds you can get.

[psw]

Yeah...I've been toying with ideas like this.

Have you heard of these switch guitars...

Switch Vibracell

they're basically foam guitars with a solid outer core. I'd be leaving the foam in as it would help I would think with the excessive brightness ank keep it strong.

One idea I have been working towards is an aluminium guitar...thin sheet that's easily pressed into shape...and the interior filled with expanding polyurethane foam. The project I'm doing now is a aluminium faced, light, chambered timber body. The aluminium protects the otherwise soft timber inner core similar to the way Parker uses an outer coating of glass to provide strength and utilize other types of tonewoods than are normally used...perhaps polystyrene is the next tone wood RGGR

The use of an exoskeleton over any type of core...even polystyrene...is emensly strong. Leaving it in there provides more strength and control of the way it vibrates.

Anyway...interesting stuff!

BTW...how is this Maxxas body made...a sandwich of two holloed out halves?

psw

[perhellion]

I read about some people that have made carbon fibre bicycle frames, and you could make the body from a mold to have it hollow from the beginning. One frame was made like you said, though. Basically a foam frame covered it cloth/resin. One note of warning -- when beginning the layup of the cloth/resin, go really thin/low number of layers at first. This guy found that heavy layers at first would actually generate enough heat to partially melt the styrofoam, distorting the frame shape.

[RGGR]

BTW...how is this Maxxas body made...a sandwich of two holloed out halves?

Yeap, that's it. And I know you don't need fancy CNC machine to do this, it could be achieved with chisle...(spelling?)......but there must be better way.

I read about some people that have made carbon fibre bicycle frames, and you could make the body from a mold to have it hollow from the beginning.

Making mold would involve too much work.....then you first have to have your basic guitar shape (wood, metal, clay) and then make mold.....then do your lay-ups...design way to connect two halfs...... Simply too cumbersome.

I'm thinking simple here. (although working with Epoxy and Cloth will never be easy).

Getting neck-thru neck blank bit wider shouldn't be issue....shaping Polystryrene should be relative easy. And wet lay-ups are not real compicated, just messy as hell.

Trick is to get all air bubbles out of your epoxy mixture before applying it.....although vacuumpump will take care of that.

The million $$ question will be......what would polystryrene do to your tone. Leave it in? Lot's of small air pockets......sounds like your perfect insulation material, not so much creator of sustain. Dissolving it with Acetone.....will create hollow inside surface.....but inside surface won't be smooth. And then your cloth.....how will this hold up......

Hmmmmmm......think I just have to build one, to test concept.

Okay. On my list of next projects.

[Slabbefusk]

This sounds very interesting. How bout building an acoustic/archtop in carbon/fibreglass? It feels like its something I could try.

[frank falbo]

Part of what makes the Maxxas so vibrant is the fact that it's a bolt on neck, so that center core of the body can vibrate more independently of the neck vibrations. If you merge them, even to create a mahogany neck through Maxxas copy, you won't have the same result. The string vibrations will be governed by that center neck thru unit. The chambers will be vibrating sympathetically. With the Maxxas, the chambers vibrate right off the center block, which is detatched from the neck, and carries all the string tension.

[Curtis P]

RGGR

Are you saying that you will be making a rough shape of the guitar, then covering it in fiberglass resin??

That actually sounds like a cool idea, I been toying with the idea of making a sheet metal acoustic, but with a wood core, yea, its still in the design stage

Curtis

[tirapop]

Here's a lost foam tutorial... for a motorcycle gas tank.

Also Robert Q. Riley's tut.

Somebody mentioned composite bicycles, so, there should be a link to Damon Rinard's pages.

[RGGR]

There are more great carbon fiber articles out there. I have to dig'm up though.

That motorcycle tank link one is very informative one. Pretty much gotten the idea for this and couple of other articles.

The whole trick is using blue Styrofoam/polystyrene and Acetone. Also handy device is vacuum pump. You can get air bubbles out of your epoxy mixture before applying it, and can vacuum bag your desired product. In combo with breeder cloths this gives nice smooth surface.

Personally I have no clue what it would do in favor or against the vibrations. My gut feel says neck-thru design is always superior to bolt-on design. No scientific proof for this. Just gut feel. With styrofoam technique you could create some wild looking hollow chambers on both sides of your neck blank.....again....no clue what this will do.

[Robert_the_damned]

RGGR

I think this is a really cool radically differant idea!

I don't think there's anyway of knowing what it will sound like without building it

I have the feeling that it might act a little like an acoustic where its the air inside vibrating to add to the sound. I don't think leaving the foam in would be a good idea, I think it'll absorb all your vibrations......unless maybe if you used some of the really high density foam...the pink stuff.....I can't remember what its actually for but its nearly as desnse as bulsa wood (wow!).

but anyway as you said get on with it

[Gingah]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I tought it'd be better than starting a brand new one.

I am trying to make a guitar as cheaply as possible, and am planning to use polystyrene (or similiar cheap packaging foam) as the body, and coat it with regular white paint for structure and stability.Additionally, I am ordering a cheap pre-wired pickguard (for a stratocaster, as that is what it will turn out as).

My question, however, is this: What would you guys reccomend for mounting the pickguard to the polystyrene? And, how would you suggest I make the neck, or alternatively, should I mount a regular guitar-neck into the polystyrene? Also, I was hoping to make it around the size of a G#-guitar (http://www.g-sharpguitar.com/?CatID=1444), are there places that sell pre-made ukulele necks (or, necks that size anyways)?

Any comments and suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Gingah